Rye Wheat Saison (Please Critique)

[BlochBaron]

I'm putting together my first recipe using Rye, and I'd appreciate some feedback, especially on the grain bill and hop additions.

I'd like to enter this in my first competition, and I'd like something that fits in the BJCP guidelines but comes out a bit spicy with detectable hoppiness (and bone-dry).

Style: Saison
System: BIAB
Boil: 60 minutes
IBUs: 27.5
SRM: ~5
Target OG: 1.057
Target FG: (depends on yeast, under 1.004)

Grist:
3 Kg Pale Malt - 55%
1.25 Kg Freekeh - 23% (A rustic wheat similar to flaked wheat which is unavailable 'round these parts)
0.6 Kg Rye Malt - 11%
0.3 Kg Acidulated Malt - 5.5%
0.3 Kg Dark Munich - 5.5% (Just for a touch of color)

Step Mash:
Protein Rest at 52 C/125 F - 15 minutes
Rise to 64 C/148 F - 20 minutes
Hold at 64 C/148 F - 60 minutes
(No Mash Out)

Hop Schedule:
FWH - 30g/1oz Saaz
60 Min - 15g/0.5oz Northern Brewer
5 Min- 15g/.5oz Fuggles
5 Min- 15g/.5oz Perle
Dry Hop- 15g/.5oz Fuggles
Dry Hop- 15g/.5oz Perle

Spices (at flameout):
1g grains of paradise
5 g coriander
Citrus Peel (usually an orange and half a grapefruit)

Yeast:
Either Wyeast 3711 or White Labs Saison 565
(depends on what I can get my hands on, usually I use 565 but it's not hot enough here yet for it to be dependable)

I wanted to keep the hop additions simple, but in these quantities is the aroma+dry hopping too light to be felt?

Is that a nice rye to wheat ratio?

Any possible pitfalls in the recipe?

Thanks!

 

[nshalev]

first of all, boil for 90 minutes. always a good practice.

Freekeh is somewhat smoked. i'm not sure you want smoke in a saison.
also 23% unmalted wheat is too much.
i would personally leave the spices out. the yeast will give it plenty of spicy character.

 

[funkt4life]

Hello.

I work in TA. I can give you some advice as saison is a style I like and brew often.

Firstly, the malt...
Traditionally saison is a belgain style and therefore caution should be used when making the malt bill. Saison is traditionally is composed of Pilsner and malted wheat. Most of the time you want to use European Continental Pilsner (Belgain if you can). Unmalted wheat would create a starch haze which wouldn't be to style and it would remain relatively full bodied and wont have the dry-ness you are trying to acheive.
The rye is fine. Acidulated malt is usually used to balance the pH in favor of more acidic fermentors, like Brettanomyces and Lactobacilli. If you plan on using alternative yeasts you can get away with starch haze and pH alterations, but with the yeasts you have mentioned you would want to stick with a basic recipe.

For Color, with saisons, although you can add Dark Munich and be to style, I find the best thing is to do a 90 minute boil and let the yeast do the rest. The orange hue of saisons come out even with just pilsner and wheat.

For hops I don't believe you gave any information on the batch size so I cannot comment about it. But basing this off a 20L batch and taking to account belgain style, I would just use SAAZ through out. And use less hops. SAAZ is noble and gives clean bitterness. It also has a spicy note when added to later additions.

For yeasts, I personally like the WYEAST 3711. Its tart and dry. Everything you would want from a saison. For maximum dryness, I would take good care to pitch the correct rate. You can get packets of dry saison yeast from Beer and Beyond (Belle Saison), for a 20L batch I would pitch 2 packets.

Lastly, you ask about pitfalls. It is my opinion that less is more. Let the yeast shine. Start low temp when pitching and let it free rise during fermentation, when you see the krausen start to fall start bumping the temp up about 1C every day. Additionally, at this point I add table sugar, it kicks up full krausen and dries the beer out more. It also gives the beer some tartness.

Spice and citrus additions are frivolous. The yeast will create all the phenols and tartness if given the right environment. The rye and Saaz will lend spicyness as well.

In the end, saison is about the yeast, you facilitate it, give it the oppurtunity to shine.