Rookie Brewer - OG question

[kjm13]

Hi all - this is my first post. Glad to be here. I recently brewed my third ever batch. It is a black rye IPA. I included the recipe below. I followed the directions very closely. My only slight variations were: I had a little trouble with keeping the mash temp at exactly 158F. Was between 154F - 168F for the 40min I spent mashing. During the boil, the wort stopped actively boiling when I added the extract, and it took 15min to start boiling again. I did not include that 15min in the 60min boil time (so - extract in the wort for 30 min, but boiling for 15min) I was also a bit over zealous in chilling the wort, and brought it down to about 60F. I ended up with just under the 3g target volume. I took a gravity reading at this point, corrected for temperature, and got a reading of 1.096. Then I added the top off water, (I used about 80F water to bring the temperature up a bit before pitching the yeast) and took another gravity reading, again correcting for temperature and it was 1.059. The target for this beer was 1.080. My question is how did I end up so far off? It is in the primary now since Tue. It initially had a brisk fermentation. The Krassuen has just about completely dropped and bubbling has stopped. I am going to take another gravity reading tonight and see where I stand.
Any comments or advice is appreciated.
Thanks.


6 lbs Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 15 min]

3 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US

2 lbs Carafa III (525.0 SRM)

1 lbs 4.0 oz Chocolate Rye Malt (250.0 SRM)

1 lbs UK Crystal Rye (278.0 SRM)

1 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM)

1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)

2.00 oz Chinook [13.60 %] (60 min)

0.50 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (40 min)

0.50 oz Cascade [7.20 %] (30 min)

1.50 oz Cascade [7.20 %] (2 min)

2.00 oz East Kent Goldings - WHOLE [5.30 %] (2 min)

1.50 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (2 min)

1.00 oz Cascade (Dry Hop - Secondary 14 days)

1.00 oz East Kent Goldings - WHOLE (Dry Hop - Secondary 14 days)

0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)

1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 0.0 min)

1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [Starter]

1 Pkgs SafAle American (DCL Yeast #US-05) [Starter]


OG: 1.080 , FG: 1.021 , ABV 7.72 , IBU 116.7 , 80.3 SRM

1) Partial Mash, Temperature Mash. Add 11.5 qt of water at 170.5 F and let sit at 158.0 F for 40 minutes

2) Heat mash to 168.0 F over 10 min, remove from heat then single sparge with 2.54 gallons of water.

3) Add grain mash to kettle and add water to achieve a pre-boil amount of 4 gallons. Boil for 60 minutes and follow hopping schedule. Add extract at 15 minutes.

4) Cool wort and transfer to primary, add liquid to achieve 5 gallons. Age in primary 14 days, transfer to secondary and dry hop, allow for at least another 14 days in secondary.

 

[aiptasia]

Your mash was a little on the warm side, and it was short IMHO. I strike at 168f and hold at approx. 153f for a 75 minute mash on double milled grains. I usually get about 80% sugar extraction with that method and for BIAB, that's not bad at all. I also don't mash out any higher than about 160*f for risk of tannin and unfermentables extraction, which seems to work well with my setup.

To me, it sounds like your mash was a little too short and you need to do just a little better on holding your mash temperatures. I know some brewers that won't go over the 150f mark (Stone brewing, etc.) on their base malts because they want a nice clean crisp extraction. I prefer mine a little bit higher than that because I want a good complete saccrification and that 152f-154f range seems to be the most balanced way for me to get there.

If your goal was to hit an OG of 1.080, next time you might have to add less topoff water and take more gravity readings as you go along. There's no harm in doing that.

 

[duboman]

Your gravity reading was off because you did not get a good mix between the wort and the top off water and this is very common. This is addressed in the stickies at the top of the forum

When brewing extract recipes it is very difficult to NOT get the proper OG so you should assume your OG was what the recipe stated it should be. This also assumes you were spot on in your volume measurements.

Edit: just re-read and saw this was a PM recipe but my thoughts are the same regarding the mix issue with top off water

 

[Odin_Brews]

+1 to the difficulty in mixing your top up water. Since you measured the OG before topping off you have a second option (probably more accurate) to calculate your new OG from the measured OG before top off assuming you have water volumes.

So take how many points you've got (96), divide by final volume and multiply by volume before topping off =OG (in pts)

 

[kjm13]

I thought of that, but way I aerate the wort is to pick up the carboy (5gal of wort and all) and shake it pretty vigerously for about 5 minutes. (this helps me work off some beer calories ) Is it possible after doing that the wort and top off water is not adaquately mixed?

 

[duboman]

I thought of that, but way I aerate the wort is to pick up the carboy (5gal of wort and all) and shake it pretty vigerously for about 5 minutes. (this helps me work off some beer calories ) Is it possible after doing that the wort and top off water is not adaquately mixed?

Yes, wort is very dense and even by shaking the bejesus out of the primary you still may not a get a great mix. IMO, if you are planning on continuing with partial mash or going all grain you should really consider moving to full boils. You will get better hop utilization and you will eliminate the mixing issues completely.

 

[kjm13]

Yes, wort is very dense and even by shaking the bejesus out of the primary you still may not a get a great mix. IMO, if you are planning on continuing with partial mash or going all grain you should really consider moving to full boils. You will get better hop utilization and you will eliminate the mixing issues completely.

Full Boils? what exactly dose that mean?

 

[duboman]

Full Boils? what exactly dose that mean?

That means there is not topping off. You factor in a full pre boil volume, account for boil off and at the end of the boil you have your full, post boil volume in the primary.

 

[kjm13]

That means there is not topping off. You factor in a full pre boil volume, account for boil off and at the end of the boil you have your full, post boil volume in the primary.

Ah... yes. (have not heard it termed that way before). Have thought about going in that direction, but will need to get a bigger brew pot (or a smaller carboy) first.
Thanks for all your input!

 

[kjm13]

+1 to the difficulty in mixing your top up water. Since you measured the OG before topping off you have a second option (probably more accurate) to calculate your new OG from the measured OG before top off assuming you have water volumes.

So take how many points you've got (96), divide by final volume and multiply by volume before topping off =OG (in pts)

Doing the math, I got about the same as thet hydrometer reading. (If I did the math right. 96/5 = 19.2 x 3 = 57.6 (The reading I got after top off was 1.059.
That's a good caluclation to have though so thanks!

 

[Odin_Brews]

If that calculation is correct, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be correct, then you hit 1.058ish for an OG giving you a 25% efficiency from your mash, yuck! At around 70% efficiency you should have hit 1.080 like you thought. TO get 1.080 OG you would have needed 3 gallons post boil at an SG of around 1.133 which would water down to 1.080 with 2 gallons of topoff water.

It would seem your mash was way off, have you checked your thermometer to insure accuracy? Even if the 40 minutes was a bit short I don't think that's enough to explain the poor extraction. How was your crush?

 

[Yooper]

It would seem your mash was way off, have you checked your thermometer to insure accuracy? Even if the 40 minutes was a bit short I don't think that's enough to explain the poor extraction. How was your crush?

But if the mash was actually held at 168, it would have denatured the enzymes and stopped the conversion so it could very well be correct.

 

[Odin_Brews]

But if the mash was actually held at 168, it would have denatured the enzymes and stopped the conversion so it could very well be correct.

Ah ha! Why didn't I think of that

 

[JeepDiver]

Also stupid question, but are you sure your Grains were milled and not whole? Using BeerSmith's dilution tool, your numbers are correct between your pre-topoff and post top off, so I don't think it is lack of mixing the wort.

 

[kjm13]

I double milled all of the grain so I don't think that was the problem. I think yooper is right about the mash temp being too high. From what I have been reading, I have been doing my mash all wrong. (Trying to hold temp with direct heat) I'm going to try something compleatly different next time. I checked the gravity 2 days ago and it was 1.020. If its the same tomorrow I'm going to transfer to the secondary and dry hop. The flavor was pretty good so I'm pretty sure this will be a drinkable beer... Just more of a session beer then what I was shooting for.
Thanks for the input. Very helpful

 

[kjm13]

SO - I transfred this batch to the secondary on sat for 2 weeks of dry hopping, and I had to have a little sample of course... I was pleasantly surprised how good it tasted. It was very earthy, with some distinct coffee notes. It didn't have the same slightly thin mouthfeel of my prior 2 batches. (even thought they were quite tastey as well) I am very excited to see how it turns out. it's amazing how much you can "screw up" and still come up with a good beer. I think this will make me a firm believer in the just relax and brew philosophy, as it will all work out in the end.
Cheers.

 

[kjm13]

I drank my first one of these last night. Only 9 days in the bottle at about 68F then in the fridge for about 4 hours. (I know it's early but I couldn't help myself). I think I might have slightly overcarbed as it poured I got a very thick head, and had to pour along side of the glass. Tasted ok. A bit green, very bubbly, and a slight sharp tannin flavor. My guess is that is because if my high mashing temp. I moved the bottles down to the basement, and will give them another week or so before I put any in the fridge. Unless anyone has different bottle conditioning suggestions? I'm hoping this will mellow out a bit with time. It's drinkable now, but hope its better by 3/17!