Roasted Barley

[oshwa]

I made a stout a few weeks back. I used some yeast that I had rinsed. The problem was I did not know how old it was and like an idiot I did not take time for a starter. Anyways it did not ferment after 4 days so I pitched some new yeast and waalaa fermentation. Today I took a sample for my hydrometer and like ever good brewer drank it. The problem is that it taste like burnt coffee. Not just a little, a lot. It is not good. I put the recipe below. Roasted Barley is 8% of the grain bill. I have never used it and wanted to give it a good try as I saw that some people use up to 10%. My question: Will the burnt coffee flavor diminish with time and is this typical for roasted barley? Did i just use too much? Or is something happening d/t the yeast failure that I described at the beginning? i.e. off flavors etc. Thanks!

9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.0 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.3 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.2 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.2 %
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] - First Wort 40.0 min Hop 6 13.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 8.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 9 -

Beer Profile

 

[Calder]

I'm not a fan of Roast Barley or Black Malt. One pound seems like a lot to me, but I don't think it is excessive.

One problem with the dark malts is that the fine particles from the grains stay in suspension a long time, and that can give a heightened roast flavor to the beer. You could try adding some gelatin and see if that helps to clear some of it.

These fine particles will eventually drop, and the beer will become less harsh with time.

 

[IL1kebeer]

8% roasted barley is not excessive.

Two things to think about:

1. The roast will mellow with some time, especially after a nice period of cold conditioning.

2. Try C40 instead. The lower lovibond crystals are sweeter than the higher lovibond ones, which are more of a dark fruit raisin flavor (60 doesn't really fall into this category but 40 is sweeter IMO). 60 to 40 is not much of a step down but it might add some needed sweetness to balance out the roast. Think of it as adding sugar to your coffee: when the coffee is black it's roasty and astringent, but if you add a touch of sugar it will change it dramatically. You already have 1lb of C60 so the difference might not be as drastic but the lower love crystal might be enough to balance out a bit.

3. If it's still too roasty for you then you can cut 25-50% of that roasted barley with chocolate malt or pale chocolate malt. You will get a different flavor from these malts though so that might not be what you are going for.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I've been reading around that Midnight Wheat vs. Black Malt/Roasted barley that the midnight wheat will still have the roasty qualities but less of the harse astringencies. Potentially a little midnight wheat to replace a little of the roasted barley could mellow out the burnt coffee flavors.

Since we're on the subject though if I were to skip the roasted barley entirely and used 12oz of Chocolate and 12 ounces of midnight wheat would it still have enough roastiness for a stout(appx 8% of grain bill each)? For an oatmeal stout would 4 oz. of carapils be overkill if I'm already throwing a lb of flaked oats into the mash?

 

[zachattack]

Since we're on the subject though if I were to skip the roasted barley entirely and used 12oz of Chocolate and 12 ounces of midnight wheat would it still have enough roastiness for a stout(appx 8% of grain bill each)? For an oatmeal stout would 4 oz. of carapils be overkill if I'm already throwing a lb of flaked oats into the mash?

The carapils is probably unnecessary, but if you want to make sure it's nice and chewy it certainly won't harm anything.

Many people consider roasted barley to be the defining difference between a stout and a porter. The dry coffee flavor is what makes a stout a stout. But don't let that stop you

 

[Dr Malt]

The "burnt coffee flavor" you refer to is characteristic of roasted barley. If you feel that is too intense for you then you used too much for your preference. Based on my preferences, 8% inclusion of roasted barley is a lot, but others may feel it is not enough.

Roasted barley is harsh and astringent because it is barley that has been roasted not malted where it goes through steeping and germination removing a portion of the tannins. Something to consider when using it in recipes.

Dr Malt

 

[zachattack]

I'd trust this guy... he's a doctor

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

The carapils is probably unnecessary, but if you want to make sure it's nice and chewy it certainly won't harm anything.

Many people consider roasted barley to be the defining difference between a stout and a porter. The dry coffee flavor is what makes a stout a stout. But don't let that stop you

Aka: don't enter it as a stout category if I enter it into a competition.

I might throw a little bit in like 4 ounces after reading this to balance some of the sweetness (it is falling pretty closely into the sweet stout category as it is).

 

[RM-MN]

The flavor you get from your sample is not the flavor you get when it is carbonated and even then it still needs time to mature out. I found that the stout I made that I thought was good at 3 months is awesome at a year. Don't rush to judge your stout's flavor.