RO with LoDo

[Arbe0]

Your thoughts on using RO water in LoDo brewing?

 

[MaxStout]

I don't see it impacting LODO at all. Many LODO brewers build their water from RO.

 

[Arbe0]

Looking at LoDo with Gordon Strong recipes that use RO and mostly only using calcium chloride in the mash.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Looking at LoDo with Gordon Strong recipes that use RO and mostly only using calcium chloride in the mash.

What "LoDo" techniques are you concerned about using ...
... that might be "incompatible"
... with the techniques you are using
... from Strong's books?

 

[MaxStout]

Gordon Strong uses RO in his recipes because that's often the common denominator among brewers who design their water. The author cannot anticipate the various well or tap waters out there, so it's more practical to just recommend starting with RO.

The typical LODO functions re mash water include pre-boiling, underletting, mash caps. The oxygen-reducing effects of those functions have nothing to do with whether or not the water is RO, or if one is adding water salts.

There is what's often referred to as the LODO "trifecta"--adding ascorbic acid, sodium or potassium metabisulfite, and Brewtan B to the strike water in an effort to scavenge O2 and limit oxidation in the mash. However, these additions are not impacted by using RO water.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

.

 

[Arbe0]

What "LoDo" techniques are you concerned about using ...
... that might be "incompatible"
... with the techniques you are using
... from Strong's books?

Recipe from Gordon Strongs book "Modern homebrew recipies". I am familiar with LoDo brewing also.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

.

 

[mabrungard]

There should be no problem in using RO with LODO.

However, building a water with only calcium chloride may not produce the best effect in the beer. The 'no sulfate' in German beers or with Noble hops is a thoroughly disproven myth. Better results will include some sulfate in the brewing water.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

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[brewbama]

The typical LODO functions re mash water include pre-boiling, underletting, mash caps. The oxygen-reducing effects of those functions have nothing to do with whether or not the water is RO, or if one is adding water salts.

+1 to include O2 yeast scavenge as well as pre boil. (It’s more convenient IMO).

There should be no problem in using RO with LODO.

However, building a water with only calcium chloride may not produce the best effect in the beer. The 'no sulfate' in German beers or with Noble hops is a thoroughly disproven myth. Better results will include some sulfate in the brewing water.

I agree based on Brewing Better Beer pg 150: “…adding enough calcium for a proper mash and then “seasoning to taste” for the final beer.” (from Tully‘s Session Beers pg 50: “It is common practice to add calcium in some form to the mash to help buffer against rising pH, protect certain malt enzymes from heat, and enhance starch conversion (Sanchez 1999, 43).”)

I ‘season to taste’ with CaCl, gypsum, salt, and epsom salt in the kettle because I don’t want anything screwing with my mash pH. Knowing some of the CaCl is consumed in the mash and doesn’t make it to the kettle, I use a 60% reduction of CaCl to calculate kettle additions. (From Tully‘s Session Beers pg 50: “Since only about 40% of the calcium added to the mash carries over to the kettle, a kettle addition may also be warranted depending on the regional water and beer style being created.”)

 

[mabrungard]

Knowing some of the CaCl is consumed in the mash and doesn’t make it to the kettle, I use a 60% reduction of CaCl to calculate kettle additions. (From Tully‘s Session Beers pg 50: “Since only about 40% of the calcium added to the mash carries over to the kettle, a kettle addition may also be warranted depending on the regional water and beer style being created.”)

Sorry, no.

Calcium is consumed in the mash due to several reactions, but the chloride is not. If you add calcium chloride to the mashing water and raise the chloride content to some value, the resulting wort will have that chloride content. Chloride is very mobile and isn't significantly tied up in the mash.

 

[brewbama]

I should have said “60% of Ca“ vs “60% of CaCl”. I agree the chloride is not consumed in the mash. However, the technique described by Talley does work quite well.

For example starting with RO water (using ppm):

So, if I add gypsum to the boil kettle:

…from what I call ‘Malty’ to ‘Slightly Bitter’ it works quite well within Palmer and Kaminski‘s “typically brewing water has 50-250 ppm of sulfate and 0-250 ppm of chloride” statement. The ‘Bitter’ slightly exceeds their upper limit of sulfate But I’m OK with that on the few occasions I use that profile.