Ro water , Boil salts vs adding to hlt sparge water

[Brian allerton]

I've always added my brewing salts to my strike water and hlt and sparged with the treated water. I use ro water and was wondering if anyone sparged with straight ro water that's ph adjusted and if they noticed anything negative from adding the salts to the boil kettle vs the sparge water?

 

[Brian allerton]

I'm mostly worried about tannin extraction because ro water is so aggressive. And if anyone has done both ways and seen any difference in there beer quality

 

[VikeMan]

I use ro water and was wondering if anyone sparged with straight ro water that's ph adjusted and if they noticed anything negative from adding the salts to the boil kettle vs the sparge water?

There's no need to adjust the pH of RO sparge water. RO water has only a tiny impact on the pH of the runoff, because it has practically no buffering capacity. It won't cause tannin extraction.

I'm mostly worried about tannin extraction because ro water is so aggressive.

Aggressive in what way?

 

[Brian allerton]

Aggressive as in it will corrode/ dissolve brass copper iron

 

[Vale71]

Aggressive as in it will corrode/ dissolve brass copper iron

That's not the water but the dissolved CO2. RO membranes will not remove CO2 but will remove all the salts that dampen its corrosive properties.

 

[VikeMan]

Aggressive as in it will corrode/ dissolve brass copper iron

Acidification is definitely not the solution to that problem. (And as I said, it's not needed for sparging.)

 

[Brian allerton]

Basically I should be good sparging with straight ro then, and add my salts to the boil kettle. I'll try it tomorrow

 

[Jim R]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you want to use your most ideal water profile (ie. properly treated RO water based on the beer you are brewing) for everything (strike, sparge and boil). If I had perfect brewing water out of my tap, I wouldn't avoid using it for any single step.

 

[Brian allerton]

I'm overfilling my hlt for the first batch of my double batch brew day so I have enough ro water on hand for the second batch between the hlt and ro storage tanks

 

[VikeMan]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you want to use your most ideal water profile (ie. properly treated RO water based on the beer you are brewing) for everything (strike, sparge and boil). If I had perfect brewing water out of my tap, I wouldn't avoid using it for any single step.

Opinions vary, and there are many ways to approach this, but I would say that there is not necessarily a single "perfect brewing water" for both mashing and for overall flavor for a given style/recipe/batch. It's because there are at least two goals with water treatment...

- Mash pH
- Finished beer mineral profile (flavor/mouthfeel)

These goals are not quite mutually exclusive, but they are not always both served by a single overall water profile.

 

[Brian allerton]

The other time I would run into this is if I was doing a smaller batch and needed to keep my herms coil covered. I havnt figured out on beersmith how to get it to calculate the brew salt additions for the unused water if treating the sparge water. And that would be a waste of salts

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I've been mashing with 12-gallons of treated RO water and then sparging with 3-gallons of untreated RO water for some time now. I never noticed any differences between when I treated the sparge water or not, in the beers that I've brewed.

 

[couchsending]

If you add salts to the kettle they actually end up in the beer. Salts added to the mash/sparge get bound up in spent grains. You’ll lose potentially 50% of the calcium in the mash.

I tend to split my Ca salt additions that might be destined for sparge water. I don’t get an increase in kettle full pH with RO if there’s at least some Ca in the sparge water. Add the rest to the kettle.

Water salts that have no impact on the mash chemistry always just get added to the kettle.

If you get to lay eyes on brew logs of the best breweries in the world there’s almost always kettle salt additions.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

If you add salts to the kettle they end up in the beer. Salts added to the mash/sparge get bound up in spent grains. You’ll lose potentially 50% of the calcium in the mash.

I tend to split my Ca salt additions that might be destined for sparge water. I don’t get an increase in kettle full pH with RO if there’s at least some Ca in the sparge water. Add the rest to the kettle.

Water salts that have no impact on the mash chemistry always just get added to the kettle.

If you get to lay eyes on brew logs of the best breweries in the world there are almost always kettle salt additions.

I guess that would depend on the styles of beer being brewed and personal preferences. Some might prefer a less mineral flavor in a NEIPA or an IPA, and more of a citrus aroma and flavor. Same for a Kolschbier or a Witbier where the flavors from yeast and spices are more expected than a mineral flavor. I can't think of a style of beer that I brew myself where I miss the lack of a more mineral flavor.

If I knew the styles of beer that benefit the most from kettle additions I would like to get some to try out myself.

 

[couchsending]

I guess that would depend on the styles of beer being brewed and personal preferences. Some might prefer a less mineral flavor in a NEIPA or an IPA, and more of a citrus aroma and flavor. Same for a Kolschbier or a Witbier where the flavors from yeast and spices are more expected than a mineral flavor. I can't think of a style of beer that I brew myself where I miss the lack of a more mineral flavor.

If I knew the styles of beer that benefit the most from kettle additions I would like to get some to try out myself.

You do realize that in order to hit the calcium goals of at least 50 for any beer that adding salts to the kettle is a better way to do it. You will end up with less of the accompanying ions in your beer that might eventually cause that “mineral flavor”. Although in my opinion that”mineral flavor” only happens with very high levels of certain ions. Way higher than you would ever encounter if your Ca ppm goal is 50.

There is no reason to add NaCl to the mash or KCL. In fact adding KCL to the mash cod potentially have a detrimental effect on it.

How would a “citrusy flavor or aroma” be negatively affected by water salts?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

You do realize that in order to hit the calcium goals of at least 50 for any beer that adding salts to the kettle is a better way to do it. You will end up with less of the accompanying ions in your beer that might eventually cause that “mineral flavor”. Although in my opinion that”mineral flavor” only happens with very high levels of certain ions. Way higher than you would ever encounter if your Ca ppm goal is 50.

There is no reason to add NaCl to the mash or KCL. In fact adding KCL to the mash cod potentially have a detrimental effect on it.

How would a “citrusy flavor or aroma” be negatively affected by water salts?

I am by no means an expert on mineral flavors, in fact, I am not even sure what KCL is. Having never added salts to the kettle for any of the beers I brew is proof of that I guess. I have never once heard someone say 'this beer can use more gypsum' or 'this beer has a bit too much sodium chloride in it'.

In other words speaking for myself, having never missed the benefits that kettle mineralization can add, I am in no position to defend or discourage their use in brewing.