RIS recipe input

[Bassbrew]

Hi all,

Fist time trying to brew anything else than an IPA.

Here's my recipe so far for a RIS (per Beersmith) :

For 5 gallons

1.109 - 1.035 (10%)
74.3 IBU / 59.2 SRM

- Pale malt Maris Otter (52,7%)
- Oats Flaked (18,2%)
- Wheat Red malt (13,6%)
- Caramel /Crystal malt 30L (2,7%)
- Chocolat Malt (2,7%)
- Special B (2,7%)
- Black patent (1,8%)
- Caramel malt 55L (1,8%)
- Chocolat Malt (1,8%)
- Roasted Barley (1,8%)
- Rye malt (1,8%)

- 2oz Centennial (60 min)
- 1oz Centennial (15min)
- 1oz Centennial (5 min)

- Yeast Wyeast 1028

Also, maybe I'll add some bourbon soaked wood chunks.

Any inputs? Sounds good? I think it will need to age?

Thanks!

 

[ong]

I think you need more different grains! But seriously, that is such a complex grist it’s hard to tell anything about how the beer will taste (other than that is a lot of oats for a RIS). I would try a stripped down recipe for your first attempt — base malt, roasted barley, and maybe some chocolate malt. It will be easier to tell what you like and don’t like, and what’s contributing those flavors.

 

[Bassbrew]

I think you need more different grains! Haha!

Yes I'm aware that I should go easy on my first attempt.

I would like something complex and rich, some chocolate with a delicate roast flavor but at the same time I'd also like something smooth.

 

[thehaze]

You could definitely simplify the grainbill.

Use a flavourful base malt or whatever you seem fit. Use some Roasted Barley and Chocolate malt. Then add a combination of Crystal malt: something like a Crystal 40-60L along with a Dark Crystal 120-160L. Flaked Barley is also good, for some head retention and graininess, but not needed. If you want to add a bit more complexity, you could add a pouch of Candi Syrup D-90 or D-180. If you go heavy on the specialty malts, try to mash low to get a more fermentable wort.

An English yeast will go superbly with a RIS. Note that when using a greater amount of roasted malts, they will add a bit of bitterness and astringency which could lead to an overall high perceived bitterness, especially if your IBUs are on the high side.

I have nothing against complex grainbills. I sometimes do that myself with good-great results, but there is definitely beauty to be achieved with a simpler grainbill.

Vanilla beans and cocoa nibs/crushed cocoa beans soaked in some kind of rum/whiskey will easily work with stouts and porters, so that's up to you if you want it there.

Cheers!

 

[Bassbrew]

You could definitely simplify the grainbill.

Use a flavourful base malt or whatever you seem fit. Use some Roasted Barley and Chocolate malt. Then add a combination of Crystal malt: something like a Crystal 40-60L along with a Dark Crystal 120-160L. Flaked Barley is also good, for some head retention a graininess, but not needed. If you want to add a bit more complexity, you could adding a pouch of Candi Syrup D-90 or D-180. If you go heavy on the specialty malts, try to mash low to get a more fermentable wort.

An English yeast will go superbly with a RIS. Note that when using a greater amount of roasted malts, they will add a bit of bitterness and astringency which could lead to an overall high perceived bitterness, especially if your IBUs are on the high side.

I have nothing against complex grainbills. I sometimes do that myself with good-great results, but there is definitely beauty to be achieved with a simpler grainbill.

Vanilla beans and cocoa nibs/crushed cocoa beans sokaed in some kind of rum/whiskey will easily work with stouts and porters, so that's up to you if you want it there.

Cheers!

Great! Thanks!

 

[ong]

I am not a fan of crystal in a big stout. They tend to be pretty syrupy and mucky anyway, so I try to dry them out rather than add even more sweetness. Maybe just a personal preference.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Are you using up odds and ends you have laying around? If so, fine. If not, you could probably simplify things.

You've got a lot of different crystal malts, some of which may be redundant.
What are you trying to add with <2% of a base malt (rye)? If you want rye flavor, use more and drop the wheat.
Are you using two different types of chocolate malt, or did you accidentally add it twice? It looks like you've got a lot of different roast grains. I'd just pick one or two.

Also: are you planning on a big starter, oxygenation, etc. with such a big beer?

 

[GoeHaarden]

I agree with everyone else, and you could probably accomplish the same thing with a simplified grainbill.

FWIW, I'm doing a RIS this weekend (targeting 1.100). It's 2-Row, Roasted Barley, Special B, Chocolate, & Cara-pils. With a 1 gallon 1028 starter. Going to do a modified partigyle for a coffee stout as well...

 

[Bassbrew]

Ok great, thank you everyone for your input!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You could definitely simplify the grainbill.

Use a flavourful base malt or whatever you seem fit. Use some Roasted Barley and Chocolate malt. Then add a combination of Crystal malt: something like a Crystal 40-60L along with a Dark Crystal 120-160L. Flaked Barley is also good, for some head retention and graininess, but not needed. If you want to add a bit more complexity, you could add a pouch of Candi Syrup D-90 or D-180. If you go heavy on the specialty malts, try to mash low to get a more fermentable wort.

An English yeast will go superbly with a RIS.

+1 on the simplify thing, and I'd be another who would caution against too much crystal, dark sugars would be preferable with a yeast that doesn't attenuate too much.

The thing to watch with the commercially-available English yeasts is ABV tolerance - a great alternative is the Rochefort yeast (WLP540 etc) which throws lots of nice fruit flavours and is obviously well adapted to high-ABV dark beers, but which is actually a British yeast related to Nottingham and Ringwood so doesn't bring any "Belgianness" to the party.

 

[Bassbrew]

Interesting! Thank you!

 

[Hopalong]

Bassbrew,
Did you choose the base malt or did beersmith recommend using it?
Marris Otter is a very high modified malt originally intended to make whiskey with. To make Ale with it enzymes may need to be added. Obtain the spec sheet for Marris Otter from the maltsters that make it, I believe there are four companies malting it. When I was researching Marris Otter, I noticed that a particular maltster is producing low protein Marris Otter, around 8% which is great but I can't remember which one. The lower the percentage of protein in malt the higher the starch content, hence, a higher sugar content. Homebrew malt is somewhere between 12 and 16 percent. The problem with Marris Otter/modern, high modified malt has to do with level of modification. The higher the Kolbach, SNR number the less power Alpha has because the enzyme expended a bunch of energy during germination softening starch and releasing sugar. The longer the germination/malting cycle, the less power Alpha has. When it is not recommended to add adjuncts it's due to Alpha being pretty beat up. Home brew malt ranges between 42 to 45 Kolbach. Brewers grade malt is below 40 Kolbach. Weyermann light and dark floor malt are 38 to 40 Kolbach and 8 to 10 percent protein. The modification numbers listed on a spec sheet (Kolbach, SNR) indicate level of modification. Percentage of protein, pH, color, extract efficiency, gravity per pound and a bunch of other interesting names, numbers and acronym are listed. The sheet exists because barley/malt are inconsistent and due to inconsistency it is tested. Data from the tests are on the spec sheet. Basically, the sheet is used to determine if the grain is worth buying. The sheet comes with each bag of grain. If the HBS does not have the sheet, email the numbers off the bar code to the maltster and ask for a spec sheet. He may send a sheet for all of the malt he produces, they used to, ask them anyway. Weyermann is great with stuff like that. Check out Weyermann Malt recipes, I believe they have a type of RIS recipe. If not on the recipe site send them an email and ask for one. I believe they will recommend using three or four rest temperatures and only a couple of special types of malt.
Crystal malt shares a bench with rancid malt and due to fatty acids instead of doing all the good stuff it is supposed to do it has a negative impact on beer 180 degrees in reverse of what is mentioned about the malt in home brew literature. Low cost crystal may not be the best crystal. That goes for any malt.
Although, the list of ingredients on a recipe are important. Producing Ale and Lager are method driven and there is no mention of how the beer will be made. If the recipe recommends to use a single temperature during the rest and a single rest period it is pretty much impossible to produce Ale and Lager due to the make up of malt and the way that enzymes work.
To endure the very long aging cycle required for RIS to become RIS requires a lot of work and very fine malt. To achieve the body and mouthfeel of RIS and to produce a chemical, nutrient, sugar balanced wort stabile enough to withstand months of aging without deteriorating malt is boiled, the decoction method is used. It is the only method that releases dextrin without destroying Alpha. Dextrin is the sugar within amylo-pectin responsible for body and mouthfeel found in the highest quality Ale and Pils. Amylo-pectin is very hard, heat resistant, complex, starch that makes up the tips of the kernel, it's the richest starch in the kernel. The starch begins to "melt" slowly at 169F, it rapidly "melts" when the decoction is boiling. When the boiling mash is added back into the main mash and during dextrinization Alpha releases A and B limit dextrin when the 1-6 links in the chain are liquefied. Dextrin is tasteless, non-fermenting sugar responsible for body. Infusion method temperatures are not high enough to cause the starch to enter into solution before Alpha denatures. The starch are small, white, particles noticeable in spent mash after infusion brewing.
If the recipe recommends using single infusion, single fermentation, and adding priming sugar or CO2 for carbonation indicates that a Beta rest is left out and in return conversion won't take place. When conversion takes place, second fermentation is required due to maltose and maltotriose formed by Beta from glucose during conversion. Starch really doesn't convert to anything, it's a poly-saccharide. The correct term is mash conversion. Starch is the container that hold the different types of sugar bound within it and Alpha opens the container and glucose, sweet, tasting, non-fermenting, sugar are released. Beta converts glucose into the types of sugar required in Ale and Lager.