Rinsing with tap water?

[El Pistolero]

Hey DeRoux, do you use any water salts? I thought one of the guys at Defalco's said to used them even with spring water.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

i use the drinking water, not the spring water. but to answer you question, i do sometimes. depends on the brew. my St. Almost amber ale I did.

 

[Rhoobarb]

I use tap water & bleach to sanitize and rinse with tap water. So far, no problems at all, so I'm sticking with it.

Since going all-grain, I have used a combo of mostly bottled drinking water from Jewel and a little tap water run through my PUR filter. But that was only because my pH was so damn high! When I was an extract brewer, I didn't concern myself with pH and just used the purified tap water. And the beers were fine.

Now that I 've gotten some 5.2 Stabilizer, I am just using the tap water run through my PUR filter.

 

[smorris]

FWIW, I have a friend in the health department and he told me that tap water is fairly dirty if you don't take precautions. What is in the lines is fine but our taps get wet and dry and harbor lots of bacteria, especially in the aerator. He suggests letting the water run for at least 1-3 minutes to flush the stagnant water from the house lines and line from the main. Prior to running the water remove the aerator and flame the faucet outlet, a butane lighter is fine for this.

 

[BlightyBrewer]

This thread makes for some interesting reading....

Just to add my two-pence worth, I believe that it is important not to get confused with the difference between sanitised and sterilised. Our aim is to thoroughly clean our equipment and sanitise (i.e. remove a large proportion of the nasties) We are not aiming for sterile conditions, which would be near impossible....if we had to be sterile (mmm, poor choice of phrase?) we would all be dressed like surgeons whilst brewing! As long as we remove a large proportion of the nasties, we will give the yeast a fighting chance to gain a dominant foothold in the fermenter...they will make short work of any remaining nasties.

I also have used bottled mineral water (which gave good results) and for my latest brew I used tap water...I tasted when racking from primary to secondary which did not indicate any contamination problems...

It's a war out there...let's brew!

 

[Porter fan]

Great Read! I just use my well water and all my brews have turned out fine.

 

[Waldo]

I'd swear our water has enough chlorine to sterlize an 8 oz glass smells like an olympic size swimming pool.

 

[Brewsmith]

When I first started, I used tap water and bleach to sanitize. To rinse I use the hottest tap water that would come out, figuring the water heater would kill anything in there. I wouldn't suggest using this method though. I really don't know what's in Los Angeles tap water, not sure if I want to find out, either. I now use Starsan no-rinse sanitizer and have had no problems.

 

[Lost]

When I started I soaked in bleach (1 tsp per gal).. supposedly this is a no rinse concentration but I rinsed anyway as many suggested that I do so. I always used boiled water and found that to be quite a pain and very wasteful. However, I never had an infection.

Now, I've only had one infection.. and that was my gf's wine. I'll tell you exactly what we didn't sanitize.. we didn't boil the water that was added to the must (the wine equivalent of the wort). Bingo.. infection. I told her not to do it but of course she didn't listen. If that'd been 5 gallons of beer I think I would've cried.

Lesson.. SANITIZE EVERYTHING EVEN THE WATER. You rinse with tap water you might as well not sanitize in the first place. You can get away with it for a good while but sooner or later it'll bite you in the ass.

I Starsan EVERYTHING! The stuff is phosophoric acid I believe and it sanitizes very quickly (30 secs or so - this is a big plus over idorophor). Further, spraying the surface down real good works just as well as submersion in the sanitizer. I make a batch with distilled water and it'll keep for weeks in a dark, cool place (under the sink). Add to spray bottle and sanitize my bottles after I pour and rinse. Then I wrap in plastic wrap and they're ready to be filled again. The suds or any residue will not affect taste (only ph to some very very small degree - less than you could measure).. the yeast will also be unaffected. It's good stuff.. for those of you who are just rinsing with tap water I'd say you're making a real mistake. There's no reason not to use a product that's so easy and inexpensive. In case you're wondering.. no I'm not affiliated with star san in any way

 

[gibfried]

First of all, I just started using Starsan after using the one step powder sanatizer for quite a while. I also noticed the sudsy soap-like bubbles in my carboys afterward. Has anyone ever had this affect the flavor of their beer? I got starsan with the thought of being able to use the stuff several times (at wort making, transfering to the secondary, and bottling) before having to throw it out on the driveway. So in that way, it is far cheaper than the one-step. Has anyone ever had any problems using the stuff?

Secondly, I've always wondered how the dealt with the sanitary issue a few hundred years ago before they understood it like they do today. I've been reading several of Charles Dickens books (A Tale of Two Cities, Oliver Twist, etc.). Ale was a major drink back then at the local Public Houses, because drinking water was pretty nasty stuff. This was a dirty world back then in England, France, and all over. How did they deal with this stuff. I would be interested in a book about the history of beer and wine making. Has anyone else asked this question? Just a thought.

 

[Kephren]

Nobody ever said the beer back then was good. But is was better than getting amoebic dissentery

 

[gibfried]

I would disagree. I've never come across any historical account that mentions anything about wine and ales being something that they drank only because the water supply was poor. They loved the stuff! Just like we do today. The Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, etc. all loved their alcohol. Did they have onestep, or even have a clue about fungi and bacteria?

The Porter I have in the secondary - we don't even know how old that is, I'm sure it was great then like it is great now. Anthropologists have noted that most known cultures have some sort of beer like drink that they love. Even most tribal people make beer from starchy food staples found in their area, and they are as proud of their beer as we are of ours. The women in many tribes in Papua New Guinea chew up a starchy potato like root, spit it out into the same container, then let it ferment it for weeks before they kick back and have a nice drink. That's pretty gross if you ask me.

I'm pretty careful about sanitation myself, but I can't help but ask myself "how they did it back then, and why was it so good?".

 

[Kephren]

You make a good point. Actually, a few good points. People love their alcohol. Probably doesn't matter what it tastes like. You get used to the taste and get a buzz. There is a new show, Going Tribal, where this guy goes to visit and live with various tribes. He visited one that made "beer." They loved it, but to him, it was horrible - didn't stop him from drinking it, though.
I've also heard about the chewing and spitting brewing method. That culture loves the stuff, but you couldn't pay me to drink it. So when I say the beer probably wasn't good, I mean by our standards today. I'm sure back then they raved about it

 

[gibfried]

Ya, I saw that "Going Tribal" also. I love that guy - dude he's brave. Maybe that'll be my next brew "Chew and Spit". Nasty.

I just poured some Weisenbock down my gullet, and boy am I relaxed...I think it's time to hit the hay.

Happy brewing!

 

[JacktheKnife]

Cheesefood,

I boil all the water going into my brew.
I have heard of folks using 'straight' bottled water,
but I boil all water, even if it is to be used for rinse water.

J. Knife

 

[Waldo]

A few years ago one of the news shows, 20/20 or 48 hours did a report on bottled water, they found that most bottled waters contained more bacteria than average homes tap water.

 

[Windaria]

As with Rhoobarb I have so far been using bleach water to sanitize, though I then use a vinegar wash to remove the bleach residue, then a normal rinse to get rid of the vinegar flavor. Totally sterile, even sanitized? Nawh... but mostly and I haven't noticed any of my first 4 batches getting infected or anything.

That said, when I move from the apartment into a house I intend to do a boiler setup and start boiling everything. Just can't really fit it in an apartment. <shrugs>

 

[kornkob]

Many dishwashers now get up to 170 degrees F or greater which kills most stuff. If you have an oventhermometer with a remote temp lead you can run the washer with the thermometer inside to see if your's gets hot enough (I don't trust 'manufacturer's specs' because many manufacturers seem to regard 'specs' as goals, not standards).

 

[Windaria]

Heck, even if it gets close that is good enough for me... dang, this would make it easy. I could do a ton of bottles in a washer, yahoo!

 

[bikebryan]

Many dishwashers now get up to 170 degrees F or greater which kills most stuff. If you have an oventhermometer with a remote temp lead you can run the washer with the thermometer inside to see if your's gets hot enough (I don't trust 'manufacturer's specs' because many manufacturers seem to regard 'specs' as goals, not standards).

The problem with dishwashers, even those few that do get hot enought to sanitize, is that they don't evenly provide water to the entire surface of the interior of the bottles. I've said this many times...home dishwashers, for the most part, do not provide good platforms for adequate sanitization. A few do, to be sure, but the units that are designed specifically to sanitize are almost always commercial units that use pressurized steam. It's very rare to get a pressurized steam line run to a home!

 

[justbrewit]

when i used to sanitize with bleach, i used tap water to rinse. this was in the army barracks at fort sill, OK. i never had any problems with any of my beers while i was rinsing with tap water.

 

[Rhoobarb]

FWIW, I have a friend in the health department ... He suggests letting the water run for at least 1-3 minutes to flush the stagnant water from the house lines and line from the main....

Yeah, the instuctions on my PUR filter advise you to run water for five minutes after installing a new filter and for approx. eight seconds every time you flip the over to use the water filter option.

 

[Sasquatch]

I'm going to come back in here and see if I can't keep things clear. A dishwasher will sanitize with heat alone. You may or may not have globs of food stuck in your beer bottles from the process, but it won't be harboring any bacteria. Which is to say, sanitized means germ free - clean means you got the gunk off.

What we need is both. We clean our equipment to get the gunk off, then we sanitize it to kill any germs or wild yeasts or spores etc. Some use rinse free sanitizers, which, while drying in the air, are exposing the equipment to airborne contaminants. Some of us rinse with hot tap water and use right away, exposing our equipment to water-borne contaminants. Best might be to rinse with recently boiled water....

Anyhow, none of us are bottling "sterile" - we don't have the conditions. We are making things reasonably sanitary, and letting the alcohol, yeast, CO2 etc take care of the rest.

 

[Dragonfly]

For what it's worth, I've used the dishwasher to sanitize the bottles on my last few batches. I haven't had any problems - which isn't to say that it's 100% effective - but I'm going to continue relying on it until I think that it's caused a problem.

 

[SteveM]

Just a few general comments. As Sasquatch notes, it is possible to have sterile dirt. So you need to both clean and sanitize.

I use bottled spring water for everything. Our tap water is not bad but there is just no comparison to the spring water. I use "no rinse" disinfectant after washing my bottles in the dishwasher and visually inspecting each, before and after the wash. But I still rinse them with hot tap water after disinfecting. I figure it is a balancing act - I don't entirely trust even "no rinse" solutions to not affect the taste of my beer or to be entirely harmless to the drinkers (although neither concern is probably rationally warranted).

So far, everything has come our just fine.

 

[paddy21]

Well sad to say I've had 4 spoiled batches. The first two at least I believe was attributed to my lack of sanitizing the lids to my buckets. The last batch though I'm just lost on. I did a secondary fermentation in another bucket which was throughly sanitized. During that racking I know the beer was still good. It might have spoiled because my auto-siphon hose touched some unsanitized counter top or kitchen table. Then it sat in the bucket and filled up. However, I can't help to wonder if my well water is so bad that when I rinse my hose or turkey baster, after useing One - Step, that it gets horribly contaminated.

?'s - How many people use buckets to ferment? & Secondary Ferment? I've read a little about them being a bad alternative because of the lids.

- Anyone have spoilage attributed to their well water?

Looking for Cheers,
Paddy

Follow Up Post: I'm thinking I may have thought of another major contributor to bacteria growth in my plastic buckets... Storing my brew tools in them! Like SS spoon, Thermometers, Wort Chiller... All that metal must have scraped the heck out my buckets. I'll have to examine them tonight and see how bad the damage is. SO my advice and question: Don't store your tools in your fermenter. Where does every else keep their hardware?