Rims tube help

[klondikekd]

So I did a search of the forums and did not find anything on this issue, if I overlooked it I am sorry for making a new thread.

I have made myself a rims tube and a controller, 1500w element with a fairly standard PID/SSR setup to pump out 115v. I did my first wet test with 3 gallons to see how well the system operated. I ran the system for 30 minutes at about a 2gpm flow rate. This raised the temperature in the 10 gallon pot from 65F to 71F. This seems poor for such a setup. Tested the element and output of the controller with a multi-meter. The element reads the correct resistance and the output in the controller is 114v. I cannot think why it heats so poorly does anyone have an idea on where I should start looking? Or is this normal?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[stlbeer]

What is your expectation? Google for the "electricheat.xls" spreadsheet and use it to determine how much heat is needed for your test.

You can also use it to determine how much heat is needed to meet your expectations.

From what you told us, a 1500w element at 114v will output 1345w. Then there's the heat loss from the surface area of the pot, which I don't know how to calculate. But even with this raising the temp from 65 to 71 doesn't take that much. The spreadsheet indicates 2 minutes at 95% efficiency. Heck with 50% efficiency the time to temp is 4 minutes. Something else is amiss. Are your thermometers accurate? Where are you measuring the temp? RIMS output or in the kettle?

 

[klondikekd]

Rims output with the PID, kettle with and IR thermometer. Is it possible for the element to be grounding out on they tube if the are touching?

 

[BBBF]

How were you controlling the element with the PID? Manually (@ 100%) or were you using the PID logic?

 

[golfindia]

Remove the SSR and PID. Start the pump and just run the element directly with AC. The element wont short to ground if it touches the tube, but you'll waste energy heating up the metal instead of liquid. Plus you'll burn yourself if you touch it. 115v is pretty low (at least by US standards).

 

[klondikekd]

How were you controlling the element with the PID? Manually (@ 100%) or were you using the PID logic?

PID logic, 120v light I installed was on constantly though, I just assumed the element was constantly on too.

 

[BigFloppy]

Crazy question... you are using an element rated for 110v NOT 240v aren't you

 

[Bobby_M]

Something is majorly wrong. You should get about 2 degrees per minute.

 

[klondikekd]

Crazy question... you are using an element rated for 110v NOT 240v aren't you

Its not crazy, I have triple checked that myself.

 

[BigFloppy]

know you've said you've tested resistance... what is it?

 

[BBBF]

Try it with the PID and 100% manual and/or just plug the element directly into the outlet.

I'm wondering if maybe your PID has setting that limits maximum % of power during ramp up and it's too low.

 

[klondikekd]

Bobby M is "welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you." A reference to Idiocracy?

 

[BigFloppy]

what PID you using?
You say the output of the controller is 114V... that's not typical of an SSR output

 

[klondikekd]

I forget, I know it was in line with what a tutorial I was reading on testing an element said it should be

 

[klondikekd]

what PID you using?
You say the output of the controller is 114V... that's not typical of an SSR output

I am using mypin

 

[BigFloppy]

AH, the infamous MyPin controller

HOPING it's the SNR version (NOT the RNR version... and you've got it wired correctly)
Issue I see is that the 6 degree rise in temp over a 30 minute timespan almost 100% seems like water is basically rising to ambient temp, ie heater element not working...


If you have any form of schematic would be useful along with actual part numbers being used (mypin what version?)

 

[klondikekd]

Try it with the PID and 100% manual and/or just plug the element directly into the outlet.

I'm wondering if maybe your PID has setting that limits maximum % of power during ramp up and it's too low.

I tried this and the element was heating at what I expected. Opened up my controler and found the hot spade connector on my 120v outlet was completely pulled free and lightly resting on its post. Think I am just going to start with a bigger box. I just tried to cram to much in there. Im sure I could make it all fit fine but after doing so already I have decided I should make life easier on my self now and give my self room for upgrades and changes I know I will make.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[BigFloppy]

we're here for you as needed, good luck with the rework

 

[rudylyon57]

A current meter would have been a handy tool to help debug this situation. Glad you found the culprit.

 

[klondikekd]

A current meter would have been a handy tool to help debug this situation. Glad you found the culprit.

This is good, In my efforts to trouble shoot my circuit I found some things that others have done I like and some stuff I did I don't think is that great. My original go was to go eBIAB for less the $200. Since I have failed to realize my goal I might as well go nicer. One thing I thought would be nice was putting a 12v out with a pot to control speed for a small pump I got. This was a money saving idea but I might as well do another 120v out for a pump upgrade if I ever decide I need it.

 

[stlbeer]

Glad you found and fixed the problem! And great idea to plan for additional expansion.

 

[klondikekd]

Thanks again everyone. I have been lurking through the forum for a year now. I'm glad I decided to hop in, you have all been great and helpful. I feel like you all proved my mother wrong and that I do have friends.

 

[augiedoggy]

AH, the infamous MyPin controller

HOPING it's the SNR version (NOT the RNR version... and you've got it wired correctly)
Issue I see is that the 6 degree rise in temp over a 30 minute timespan almost 100% seems like water is basically rising to ambient temp, ie heater element not working...


If you have any form of schematic would be useful along with actual part numbers being used (mypin what version?)

Theres really nothing wrong with those mypin controllers. They are very reliable and a great value for the money... I would say though (and I bet you argree) that most of the problems they are attributed to are from the simple lack of support and knowledge with them vs the auber branded ones.
It would be nice if we had a sticky here on popular pid choices and the basic wiring schematics are well as options and operation... I bet that would mean a lot more mypins being used than their are now compared to the other options at twice the markup or more.


Many times people just buy the wrong one (you want a td4-snr or Td4-SRR) or they wire them up wrong using the auber wiring diagram layouts and blame the pid for the failure to perform.

 

[BBBF]

Theres really nothing wrong with those mypin controllers. They are very reliable and a great value for the money... I would say though (and I bet you argree) that most of the problems they are attributed to are from the simple lack of support and knowledge with them vs the auber branded ones.

I couldn't agree more. I used CAL3300's on my panels and it was frustrating running into problems while still trying to learn about the PIDs and not knowing what is normal. There is a big advantage to going with the Auber ones and being able to come to this forum and ask questions to people who are using them in similar ways.