RIMS troubleshooting

[AndMan3030]

I just used my upgraded system for the first time and encountered a couple problems. I was able to get through the brewday, and even achieve great efficiency, just not satisfied with how I got there. I am using a keg with a 'Pico Style' false bottom, and a brand new March Pump with a center inlet. Here were my issues:

Water was flowing fine through the pump while heating my strike water, when I reached my temp I turned the pump off, doughed in, then started re-circulating. right away I could see air in the hose, and the pump seemed to have difficulty moving the wort. Should I perform a Vourlaff before running into the March Pump? The flow slowed and started moving in waves, flowing fast, then slowing to a halt, then fast again.


Any tips for proper mash re-circulating would be helpful. Thanks :rockin:

 

[garbageman]

Do you have a ball valve on the output of the pump to control the flow. You may be "sucking" from the mash tun and need to slow down to match the normal gravity flow.

 

[AndMan3030]

I do have a ball valve on the output valve, but did not know to adjust it right away. It seemed to be sucking bubbles out of the bottom of my mash tun which confused the heck out of me. I think the air in the lines was what caused the incosistency of the flow rate. Will this work better when the return is attached to a return valve/spigot instead of an open hose?

 

[stlbeer]

I don't know that attaching the return from the RIMS to a valve or spigot would make any difference. If none of the hoses are leaking from the MLT to the pump, then it definitely sounds like you are sucking air, as garbageman has suggested.

You still need to vorlauf, but probably won't need to as much with the pico fb. You will want to close the valve down to about 1/4 of full open so you don't get a stuck mash. From there you can adjust your flow based the ability of the wort to drain.

 

[RoadKing]

It sounds like your bottom was clogged with grains. Try shutting the pump off, stir and scrape the bottom.
I run my pump full bore the whole mash and I'll stir it every 15 mins. or so. (scraping the bottom) With that false bottom I rarely get clogged up during the mash,but occasionaly it does. I just turn the pump off stir good and it's good to go.
If your pulling air you must have a leak at one of the clamps. When the bottom clogs that pump will create ALOT of suction, it will pull air from anywhere it can. I have a vacum gauge on the inlet side of my pump so I can tell when it's starting to stick.

 

[pickles]

I bet that you were sucking air as others have suggested. I dont shut my pumps off, i just close output valve that way the pump stays primed. I dont vorlauf (traditionally anyway), the recirculating of the pump will in effect vorlauf automatically.

 

[AndMan3030]

my question regarding a vorlauf was me wondering if I got the pump clogged with grain. If so should I have vorlaufed before running the pump. I was also anticipating recirculating faster that the flow of gravity to better distribute the direct heat.

 

[pickles]

I understand what you meant; I don't run off any liquid. It all goes through my Jaybird FB then to a March 809HD; I've never had a clogging issue with that FB. I know that some grain pieces get through but eventually the bed settles. If your current setup requires you to do additional vorlaufing with out the pump connected I suggest getting a different FB. I wouldn't want to mess around with that everytime I doughed in. I recirculate at full throttle or very near full, but Jaybird's FB is pretty beefy; the suction has been known to crush thinner FBs. I also like a thin mash, usually 1.5 qts per lbs. I suppose that could be part of your issue, what was your grist to water ratio?

 

[AndMan3030]

1.25 - I suppose i could try a thinner mash. I have always used 1.25 and had good results. I think the problem may have been the false bottom getting clogged. I used a drill with a paint mixer on it, and really spun it up. this may have cause bits of grain to get in the screen. I did not stir the mash again when it was having problems either. Is the paint mixer/drill a bad idea?

 

[pickles]

I'd just stick with a spoon for stirring. I usually stir for a minute or so for the first 45 min of 60 min mash, then let grain bed set before (vorlauf) draining to BK and sparging. When you say "you've always had good results with 1.25 qts" were you using the FB and pump setup then?

 

[AndMan3030]

I was using a cooler with a copper manifold on the bottom per John Palmer's how to brew design. I used my coolers for 7 years and always got 75%-80% efficiency, which i considered outstanding. very excited to build and use a single tier dierct fire system, but a little frustrating at first.

 

[AndMan3030]

oh, and I have never used a pump until now. Planning on getting one more and slowy building a Brewtus 10 style setup. I have an electrician/welder in the family, so I will be able to put him to work once I have purchased many more items.

 

[pickles]

I'd say thinner is better when recirculating but I use a RIMs tube. Make sure the pump is primed and no air leaks in the piping. That's should do the trick.

 

[RoadKing]

Remember with that bottom, you have 2 gallons of foundation water. So with an average 10 gallon recipe, using between 15-20 lbs of grain I use 1.33 Qt.s Per Lb,
plus the 8 Qts under the bottom it ends ends up being around 1.70 Qt.s Per Lb. You don't want much more or you could denature enzymes.
I fill mine to the false bottom then add the 1.33 Qt.s per lb. If it's a big beer I'll use 1.25 and I consistently get 85% efficiency.

 

[AndMan3030]

I seemed to get a great efficiency out of my first run with it. 23.5 lbs of grain, 12 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.054. I am also considering building HERMS system. any thoughts on REMS vs HERMS ??

 

[AndMan3030]

It sounds like your bottom was clogged with grains. Try shutting the pump off, stir and scrape the bottom.
I run my pump full bore the whole mash and I'll stir it every 15 mins. or so. (scraping the bottom) With that false bottom I rarely get clogged up during the mash,but occasionaly it does. I just turn the pump off stir good and it's good to go.
If your pulling air you must have a leak at one of the clamps. When the bottom clogs that pump will create ALOT of suction, it will pull air from anywhere it can. I have a vacum gauge on the inlet side of my pump so I can tell when it's starting to stick.

this was my problem