RIMS set up!

[plumber]

slnies, I have to admit when I saw your set up on Sat. the first thing that entered my mind was wow I want. Now that you said it worked I am going to have to build one. Hope you don't mind but you might get a lot of questions from me in the future.
Shawn

 

[slnies]

slnies, I have to admit when I saw your set up on Sat. the first thing that entered my mind was wow I want. Now that you said it worked I am going to have to build one. Hope you don't mind but you might get a lot of questions from me in the future.
Shawn

Ask away, You know where to find me.

 

[slnies]

I like the exchanger. I hadn't seen anyone use a heating element in such a confined area before but it certainly takes away the stratafication you'd get in a larger vessel. Interestingly enough, I just went digging through the stainless dumpster at the local scrap yard and found a similar piece of kit. It was a 4" stainless pipe with end cap flanges. I pulled one end out and it had seven 3000 watt x 240v elements inside. Talk about heating capacity. Sh!t. If the elements didn't look so beat, I might have bought it. Well, that and where am I going to get a spare 112 amps from my panel?

It got me thinking though. With enough power, you could use this setup as both an instant water heater for dough in/sparge and with the flick of a few valves could also use it for HERMS. I hate to say it, but I'm rethinking my 3-burner nat gas system.

Hey Bobby, just as a side note, even without the high power, this set up took 57F water to doe in temperature in 18 minutes. I have the ramp set when I am heating wort to do no more than 2.0 degrees a minute. Not that it makes that much of a difference though because I get 4 degrees a minute with plain water and only a little over three in the wort with the PID function on anyway. I set the ramp to two because I figured that was a good number.

 

[Bobby_M]

I wonder how fast it would run at 4500w on 240v.

 

[slnies]

I wonder how fast it would run at 4500w on 240v.

That my friend, is a good question.

 

[plumber]

Did you put a gfci plug in on main power supply?

 

[slnies]

Did you put a gfci plug in on main power supply?

No! Only because most garages and kitchens already have GFCI's. If I made one a part of the design I would have issues with it tripping because of the existing GFCI. The solution is to use a contractor style corded GFCI when one is not to be had where ever I bring this thing. At Wally's all off his garage circuits are GFCI protected. And at my house where this thing normally resides there is also a GFCI outlet that it plugs into. You bring up a good point though. You should always maintain a GFCI power supply for anything that deals with water or conductive liquids.

 

[Grimsawyer]

I've got a question for you. How efficently does it heat water? Could you chuck your HLT and heat tap water to sparge temps with one pass at 1quart/min? I saw Virtuous's Thread polishin my pipe for 2 hours and followed links to this thread. Sweet system btw!

 

[slnies]

Well Grimsawyer, to answer your question, the element will heat water at 4 degrees a minute with plane water. How ever I do not have a flow meter hooked up to the system so I couldn't tell you what the flow rate is. I let it heat strike water at full tilt, no restriction, and then I shut it down for doe in, start it back up and slowly open the gate valve until I have a good easy flow. It should be noted though that the element is on a PID and the closer you get to your target the heating slows down to decease overshoot. I guess if I were brewing more than 5 gallon batches I might redesign the manifold to hold two elements, so that there is twice as much surface area heating. Again though you run into manifold efficiency issues, more elements will only help if you can move more water or wort past the heaters. I get around this though by having an element in the HLT and the HLT runs when the MLT is not. By the end of the mash, my sparge water is on target and ready. No wasted time. No need for more circuits. I fond that when I went to this configuration I needed to extend the cycle time out on the PID or the element in the HLT would not run. This wouldn't have to happen, but I have a time delay on the HLT to insure that it can't be on at the same time as the MLT. It works great. It takes twenty minutes to get the water to strike temp. In that twenty minutes I measure out and grind my grain. It took me a couple of runs to work things out procedure wise, but boy o boy does this thing make life easy. S.

 

[CodeRage]

I just finished testing my setup. I was able to raise 5 gal of water from 50 to 150 degrees in an hour. The flow rate was fairly high but I dont think that really matters. I am happy with it though. I am currently running the element at 110 but I may up it to 220v and see how it goes.
One thing I did notice was my march pump lost it's prime and it didnt take but 10 seconds for the water in the heat exchanger to start boiling out the inlet. Hope I didnt flash the element.

I think when I do my first brew I am going to use my 4500W boil kettle to get the water up to strike temp. Then use the MLT element to ramp up.

 

[missing link]

Great information guys.

I just finished a test run of something similar. I'm not sure what you call the type of system I built but it goes like this.

MLT drains through a manifold via gravity into a 1 gallon cooler. The 1 gallon cooler has a 1500W heating element in it. When the 1 gallon cooler is full, it overflows via gravity into my pump, the pump then runs back up to my sparge manifold. The 1 gallon cooler seals up easily and doesn't leak. I am assuming this is similar to your set-ups.

During my test today, I filled my 12 gallon mash tun as full as I could, closed the lid and fired everything up. I get a 1 degree per minute temp rise or maybe 1.5 minutes per degree. At first it didn't seem to be heating but after about 5 minutes I started to get consistent temp rises on the digital thermometer that is at the exit of the MLT.

My test consisted of just plugging things into an extension cord, I am now in the process of building a control panel with switches and lights to see what is on. At some point I will wire in a Ranco for the heating elements.

I'm pretty excited about trying this thing with grain next week.

 

[Brewpastor]

Sounds like a cool project and promising results. Keep us posted.

 

[CodeRage]

Great job!
Vive la revolución eléctrica

 

[missing link]

So, these are pic's of the system in operation, One is the element connection and the protector that I made for it, so as I don't electrocute myself when I am not paying attention, and the last is of the grounding of the heating manifold. I will later change the wire out to green, but I wanted to test so, what ever was lying around. Other things that will happen are a twist lock male and female cap for fast element removal, another PID and SSR for an electric HLT, and maybe the new PID I order with ramp and soak control and I will switch it out with the one that is operating the MLT now and that one will operate the HLT. I don't know, we will see what the SWMBO lets me get away with.

Is it OK to have the wort in contact with the copper. For some reason I am remembering reading that it is bad but then we use copper for immersion chillers etc.

What size copper tubing did you use?

Linc

 

[CodeRage]

I dont think copper is an issue. Maybe you are thinking of brass. Brass is okay after it has been pickled.

 

[slnies]

Is it OK to have the wort in contact with the copper. For some reason I am remembering reading that it is bad but then we use copper for immersion chillers etc.

What size copper tubing did you use?

Linc

I used 1.5 inch copper tubing. Copper is good for yeast health.

 

[Seabee John]

I used 1.5 inch copper tubing. Copper is good for yeast health.

are you still polishing your tube?....you know.... for yeast health?

 

[slnies]

LoL!! !!!!!

 

[CodeRage]

are you still polishing your tube?....you know.... for yeast health?

I've been married for 5 years....

 

[slnies]

I've been married for 5 years....

SeabeeJohn is still learning. He is still nearly a newly wed. Under five years. Of course I could be wrong, but if that is the case then I have known him for way longer than I thought.

 

[Seabee John]

SeabeeJohn is still learning. He is still nearly a newly wed. Under five years. Of course I could be wrong, but if that is the case then I have known him for way longer than I thought.

I've been married for 5+ years... hit 5 back in Jan. And just because your married, doesn't mean that a guy has to stop polishing his copper. Hell, there are days I polish it twice! (I like my copper shiny!)

 

[slnies]

I've been married for 5+ years... hit 5 back in Jan. And just because your married, doesn't mean that a guy has to stop polishing his copper. Hell, there are days I polish it twice! (I like my copper shiny!)

I think that is what Virtous is getting at. The longer you are married, the more you shine your..... .

 

[slnies]

So, The second batch of brew was done on the system today. I report smooth sailing and excellent performance. I hit all of my temperatures right on, and enjoyed the freedom of control in the process. I also dreamed up a idea that puts my PID to use controlling the fermentation temperatures. I do not have pictures yet but some will follow.
My idea goes like this. The line that controls my heating manifold has a cord cap outlet. This is plugged into a heating pad that was used for the dog. This pad sites under the carboy and the thermocouple from the PID is strapped to the side with a belt and some insulation. My basements ambient temperature is around 50F to 55F. Anyway this is my half ass idea. I will keep you all updated. S.

 

[slnies]

So here is the rig in action. The first Pic is the carboy set up and in operation. The second is the same except that I removed the towel so you can see the probe and insulation that are belted to the side. As you can see, the rig is holding temperature. I have the dead band set to 1 degree and it is the ferment right on temp. I did calibrate the probe with a calibrated thermometer for accuracy. It works great. I love this thing. S.

 

[slnies]

More news. The RIMS as we know it will be making another change. With the additions of a couple of new SS keggles I will be out fitting one as a mash tun and one as an electric boil kettle. The mash tun will use the same RIMS set up I currently have, but the stand will change for space conservation. The boil kettle on the other hand will be a whole new experiment. More to follow when the build gets under way. S

 

[Grimsawyer]

Sweet!!! Grats!!!

 

[Nwcw2001]

Got a question. I am looking to possibly build myself a rims system. I was wondering about caramelization. Does the wort caramelize going through the system? I brew a Belgian Tripel that is really light and would like it to stay that way.

Thanks

John

 

[slnies]

Got a question. I am looking to possibly build myself a rims system. I was wondering about caramelization. Does the wort caramelize going through the system? I brew a Belgian Tripel that is really light and would like it to stay that way.

Thanks

John

Well, let me answer that. No! There is no caramelization. My very first beers in this system were light beers. I have done a cream ale and an American Pils with great success. The trick is, to get a low density element. In the 50 watts an inch range. This is what I have and it works great. The hydrometer pics in this thread are of a light beers first running's. The other thing is to have the pump recirculate through out the whole mash. This keeps the wort constantly moving across the element preventing any wort caramelizing or scorching. I hope this helps. S.:rockin:

 

[slnies]

For the record, the brew on the temp control up above, is an english mild. It did not last long. Temp control rocks. S

 

[Seabee John]

I've been building my own ver. of the Slnies RiMS set up and I can't wait to give it a try. I'm 90% on the plumbing and still have to wire it up, but I should have pics up soon! I plan on brewing with Sean this weekend, so I'm sure he'll post his critiques!