RIMS Explosion Risk

[Keith81]

I'm researching RIMS brewing and think that is the direction I want to go since I already have a pump. I've got plenty of experience with single infusion (although only 1 gallon batches) but no experience with recirculating mash. The thing that has me concerned is all the warnings I'm seeing about explosion potential if flow stops. Is this a real possibility or is it basically legal speak like how they have to have a warning on coffee cups that they are hot? I'll be getting my setup from Brew Hardware so I know it will be designed correctly and I'm likely to use rice hulls in every batch, more in the batches with wheat, rye or flaked. I don't want to go with HERMS because I'm considering either no sparge or cold batch sparge and eliminating the HLT.

 

[BrunDog]

As long as the outlet of the RIMs tube is open, how could there be a buildup of pressure? If you place any restriction valve in the circuit, it should go between the pump and the RIMs tube, never after the RIMs tube (in the direction of flow).

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm researching RIMS brewing and think that is the direction I want to go since I already have a pump. I've got plenty of experience with single infusion (although only 1 gallon batches) but no experience with recirculating mash. The thing that has me concerned is all the warnings I'm seeing about explosion potential if flow stops. Is this a real possibility or is it basically legal speak like how they have to have a warning on coffee cups that they are hot? I'll be getting my setup from Brew Hardware so I know it will be designed correctly and I'm likely to use rice hulls in every batch, more in the batches with wheat, rye or flaked. I don't want to go with HERMS because I'm considering either no sparge or cold batch sparge and eliminating the HLT.

what size element are you going to use and what wattage? how about pump setup? these things are very important as to how well the rims will actually work and how foolproof it will be without possible problems.
the brewhardware rims as well as many others are just offset TC tees from the dairy industry they werent engineered or designed to be any better at performing as a rims really, they were just used because they started out being rather cheap off the shelf components that worked. I believe a longer lower watt density rims is safer , gentler (as far as denaturing enzymes) and more consistent because the wort has longer contact time on each pass to give the rims a better chance to heat the wort in a gentle way without having to overheat some it at the surface with a more powerful element as it passes through very quickly (High flow is also not ideal for grainbeds for a number of reasons including channeling and stuck sparges.

If your really worried you can use a flow switch like the one im using https://www.ebay.com/itm/Liquid-flo...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 wired as an inline switch controlling your SSR power this will kill the element instantly whenever flow stops to your rims.

 

[cegan09]

explosion risk is super low. to have a risk of explosion you need to seal both ends so there can be a raise in internal pressure.

The realistic risks are burning wort. Which can come from using too powerful of an element or stopping fluid flow.

 

[beernutz]

I'm researching RIMS brewing and think that is the direction I want to go since I already have a pump. I've got plenty of experience with single infusion (although only 1 gallon batches) but no experience with recirculating mash. The thing that has me concerned is all the warnings I'm seeing about explosion potential if flow stops. Is this a real possibility or is it basically legal speak like how they have to have a warning on coffee cups that they are hot? I'll be getting my setup from Brew Hardware so I know it will be designed correctly and I'm likely to use rice hulls in every batch, more in the batches with wheat, rye or flaked. I don't want to go with HERMS because I'm considering either no sparge or cold batch sparge and eliminating the HLT.

Where are you seeing these warnings?

 

[Keith81]

That makes sense. I was thinking the explosion would be due to boiling wort but as long as the steam can escape there wouldn't be a build up of pressure. The flow switch does look like good safety measure also.

 

[Schreiner]

As long as the outlet of the RIMs tube is open, how could there be a buildup of pressure? If you place any restriction valve in the circuit, it should go between the pump and the RIMs tube, never after the RIMs tube (in the direction of flow).

What??? I always restrict the flow after my RIMS tube with a valve. I'm guessing my silicone tube feeding into my RIMS tube will explode first.

 

[Keith81]

The warning I was referring to is in the description on Brew Hardware referring to not putting a valve downstream of the tube. I came across the word explosion a few other places when I googled RIMS brewing but now realize those are older sources.

 

[BrunDog]

What??? I always restrict the flow after my RIMS tube with a valve. I'm hoping my silicone tube feeding into my RIMS tube will explode first.

Fixed it for ya!

Seriously, might want to think about that config and move it to the input.

 

[augiedoggy]

Rims vs herms has become a bit of a ford vs chevy thing with a lot of folks exaggerating the possible downsides of each to promote thier decisions the pipe bomb comments must have originated somewhere with some incorrect setup but its not a real concern it you only have the potential to ever get blocked at one end..
Realistically its not a concern as mentioned above.
I do love having the flow switch though since theres been a times I forgot to kill my rims power with the pump. whithout it, if you get a stuck sparge you will very likely get scorching with a higher power element but having the temp probe as close as possible to the element without touching helps prevent this too.

 

[cegan09]

That makes sense. I was thinking the explosion would be due to boiling wort but as long as the steam can escape there wouldn't be a build up of pressure. The flow switch does look like good safety measure also.

You shouldn't really ever be hitting boiling temps inside a RIMS. As long as you're using a real controller, either a PID, or something like the EZBoil in conjunction with a temp sensor in the actual RIMS tube, it shouldn't let the liquid get above the set point, even if flow stops. The fluid will heat up to the set point and the controller will turn the element off. I've had this happen a few times if my little pump gets clogged. The controller sees the fluid hit my set point and just leaves the element off.

Now if you have a complete failure of your controller, so it fails with element at 100% power and the pump turns off, yes the liquid could hit boiling. But as long as you have not completely blocked flow in and out of the tube, pressure has somewhere to go and the worst you'll do is burn wort and maybe destroy the heating element if you boil off all the liquid in there.

 

[BrunDog]

With a 5500W element in the tube, I assure you water can be boiled! But you are right about the sensor halting the heat.

 

[dyqik]

Regardless of the explosion risk, you probably still want the valve directly on the outlet of the pump, so you can use it as a unit in other places in your system (for cleaning if not during actual brewing, or as a backup).

 

[augiedoggy]

An alternative all together is to not use ball valves for flow control which with dc pumps and pwm speed controllers is an economical alternative.

 

[cegan09]

With a 5500W element in the tube, I assure you water can be boiled! But you are right about the sensor halting the heat.

Oh, i wasn't saying that an element can't boil what's in the tube, just that a properly setup system shouldn't. Meaning the RIMS should not be trying to boil or get close to boiling to bring the rest of the system up to temp. It should only heat to the set point.

 

[Schreiner]

Fixed it for ya!

Seriously, might want to think about that config and move it to the input.

I have the thrifty RIMS from Jaybird. I just set it up in the orientation he set it up in his exploratory thread here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...nister-from-nor-cal-brewing-solutions.596116/

I can't see a bit of difference on which side I am restricting the flow, as long as the top of the RIMS tube is below the wort level in the mash tun. It should never run dry once you have things going.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have the thrifty RIMS from Jaybird. I just set it up in the orientation he set it up in his exploratory thread here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...nister-from-nor-cal-brewing-solutions.596116/

I can't see a bit of difference on which side I am restricting the flow, as long as the top of the RIMS tube is below the wort level in the mash tun. It should never run dry once you have things going.

its not about running dry its about localized boiling and pressure buildup.

 

[Rhaop]

How have I never seen one of these rims tube setup before now, looks awesome i guess i always thought of rims as a direct fire gas like the blichman set up with tower of power