Rhubarb wine infected.

[Blou04]

Hi, I've been fermenting since a year now, but two month ago i got attacked by what I assume i a lacto-bacteria. There's a white film and White-ish bubbles floating, but there isn't an offtaste yet. I already lost 5l of mead and 10 l of cider. But i noticed signs of infection on my 25l carboy (around 6 gallons) of rhubarb wine. Even though the ph is under 3 and it's at lest 13% abv. I used this yeast :https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr...rm-doux/d/dried-wine-yeast-bioferm-doux-100gr .

I think it was infected when i racked it two weeks ago. I added 37g of calcium carbonate to try to reduce acidity. When the infection declared i added 3g of sulfite (a bit more than 1 cambden tablet/gallon). I also filled the last inches of head space in the carboy with grain alcohol to try raise the abv a bit more.

What signs should i watch to be ensured the infection is beeing killed off?

PS: this batch is especially important for me since it's the first someone asked me to do.

 

[Yooper]

It may not be "killed off". A lacto infection or acetobacter infection turns the wine sour, which will remain sour even if the bacteria itself is killed.

Make sure the wine is topped up- NO headspace at all, and maybe you've dodged a bullet.

 

[Blou04]

Thanks, but the wine is sour only because of the natural acidity in the rhubarb. no damage has been done to the wine yet. If i can kill the infection now, it's all good.

If i completely fill the headspace, it will stop the infection

And last question, if it is lactobacter infection might it be just a malolactic fermentation. I read rhubarb contains a lot of malic acid. I would be interested in reducing the acidity and mellowing the wine (as i read the MLF does), it's ph 3 now, quite a bit acidic.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, but the wine is sour only because of the natural acidity in the rhubarb. no damage has been done to the wine yet. If i can kill the infection now, it's all good.

If i completely fill the headspace, it will stop the infection

And last question, if it is lactobacter infection might it be just a malolactic fermentation. I read rhubarb contains a lot of malic acid. I would be interested in reducing the acidity and mellowing the wine (as i read the MLF does), it's ph 3 now, quite a bit acidic.

No, filling the headspace won't kill this infection- but having it filled means that oxygen loving bacteria (such as lacto and acetobacter) or mold can't take hold in the first place so it will prevent it from recurring.

Rhubard has more oxalic acid than malic acid. I've never heard of MLF in a rhubarb wine, although I'd guess possible if the wine was exposed to the culture and the wine wasn't sulfited.

however, MLF does not produce a pellicle or white bubbles or anything of the sort. If you got evidence of infection, it's not MLF- it's an infection.

 

[Blou04]

So can i kill it with sulfite? Will i need to stabilize it with sulfite when bottling time comes? will it be enough to stop it?

 

[Yooper]

So can i kill it with sulfite? Will i need to stabilize it with sulfite when bottling time comes? will it be enough to stop it?

I've never known of anybody really successful with saving an infected wine. You can definitely try it, that's all I can say.

 

[Blou04]

Hi, I've stumbled over this: https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr...tabilising-products/d/malostop-vinoferm-25-gr
Will it solve my problems?

 

[Yooper]

Hi, I've stumbled over this: https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr...tabilising-products/d/malostop-vinoferm-25-gr
Will it solve my problems?

No. Stopping MLF isn't the problem. You can easily do that with the proper dosage of sulfite, though.

 

[bernardsmith]

Never experienced these kinds of infections (lacto and /or aceto) but if they do occur what do you need to do to make sure that no bacteria are now ensconced in equipment (measuring cylinders, tubing and hydrometers and the like) or carboys? Does K-meta effectively kill such bacteria?

 

[Yooper]

Never experienced these kinds of infections (lacto and /or aceto) but if they do occur what do you need to do to make sure that no bacteria are now ensconced in equipment (measuring cylinders, tubing and hydrometers and the like) or carboys? Does K-meta effectively kill such bacteria?

K-meta does- but it has to be in the "sanitizing" strength. Plastic is permeable, and I would throw out anything plastic. Glass can be bleach bombed, and that is very effective.

 

[bernardsmith]

yeah, Blou04 suggests (I think) that he already lost some mead to an infection and some cider so I am thinking that he now has one or both bacteria in his winery. So the equipment that Blou04 uses may be re-introducing the bacteria into fresh batches...if indeed, there is an infection (a pH of 3 and an ABV of 13% would seem to me to an environment that acetobacter would not find hospitable)...

 

[Blou04]

Just a follow-up, the white film in the neck of the carboy as disapeared but there's still a few small white bubbles. I think it's just caco3 floating, i'll get a picture asap.

I 'm pretty sure the cause of the infection was my auto-siphon, it's after i racked it that it started showing signs of infection. Each time before using it i circulate some kmeta solution, i guess i didn't do it long enough. Next time, i'm going to submerge it in some kind of container.

I was also thinking, i could make a port wine out of it. fortify it with brandy up to 18-20abv maybe, that should ultimately do the trick right?

 

[Blou04]

Here's some pictures:

http://imgur.com/RQWPAO3,XRQxp2e

i did as i could with my phone.

PS: yes it's a 15.5gal demijhon in the background

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Hi, I've been fermenting since a year now, but two month ago i got attacked by what I assume i a lacto-bacteria. There's a white film and White-ish bubbles floating, but there isn't an offtaste yet. I already lost 5l of mead and 10 l of cider. But i noticed signs of infection on my 25l carboy (around 6 gallons) of rhubarb wine. Even though the ph is under 3 and it's at lest 13% abv. I used this yeast :https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr...rm-doux/d/dried-wine-yeast-bioferm-doux-100gr .

I think it was infected when i racked it two weeks ago. I added 37g of calcium carbonate to try to reduce acidity. When the infection declared i added 3g of sulfite (a bit more than 1 cambden tablet/gallon). I also filled the last inches of head space in the carboy with grain alcohol to try raise the abv a bit more.

What signs should i watch to be ensured the infection is beeing killed off?

PS: this batch is especially important for me since it's the first someone asked me to do.

Did you mix the calcium carbonate with a little water before you added it? Or did you add the dry powder & give it a stir? Did the calcium carbonate dissolve or clump & float?

Here's some info you might find useful in diagnosing wine/mead problems:
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/problems.asp
Regards, GF.

 

[Blou04]

I did try to mix it in a small amount of wine, but it was close to plaster of Paris putty, it did sink fast. But the wine went cloudy for 2 weeks and i could see small bubbles of co2 rising from the lees.

The wine is clear now but I can't know for sure if CaCO3 did it's job. I didn't open it since, too afraid to give it oxygen and feed the lactobacter.