Revolutionary EPA

[FL_Brewer]

You live in a cool part of the UK, I was Google map stalking you, sorry. I've only visited London for a weekend years ago. Can't wait to go back and do a whole UK beer tour thing.

I just got a job recently too. Beertender at a brew pub in Utica, NY www.nailcreekpub.com. Pretty cool place, good beer, good food. The owner is waiting to the state government to process the forms/permits for brewing. He has a small 4 barrel system in the basement. Eventually, when he gets that going (this summer) I hope to have an opportunity to help out with that too.

Cheers

 

[ChillWill]

Well done on the job, I bet working in a brew pub would be cool!

We get whitelabs and wyeast, although i've only used wlp550 for a couple of Belgians, then i've been using nottingham or S-04.

I think you're right, i'll do away with dry hopping and cut the other additions.

I might also change the malt to more of an esb base, not sure if the pale ale idea is right for what i'm trying to achieve. I've got some flaked barley so i'll try and incorporate that.

I'll have to look into yeast as well, maybe i'll 'borrow' some from the brewery, they've got a pretty good all-round strain they use for everything and anything.

 

[ChillWill]

ok... just ordered some more Maris otter and a bit of Munich malt (although I may not use it, was an impulse buy... at £1.25/kg it won't harm not to use it). Also got some new EK goldings.

Thinking next it'll be a base of Maris then use some crystal, biscuit, Munich and a small amount of chocolate. Ordered some more Goldings. Now... do I stick with Chinook or not! I've got Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo, Chinook and Fuggles lying around. Although I want to stick with my 1x UK, 1x US hop variety plan with mostly English malt with an 'American' influence (ie. not JUST maris & crystal like most UK bitters tend to be).

I'm tempted to use a VERY light amount of Simcoe next time for it's "it’s clean, pine-like aroma and a taste with a slight hint of citrus". But then again, I do like Chinook! Maybe if I cancel dry hopping and aroma additions of chinook, then only use them as a 60min & a light amount at 10min with goldings at 10 & 0min.

I'm after a nice malty brew with some hop flavour and not necessarily aroma which I think batch #2 suffered from having too much of. I've got a really good Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo IPA ready now, so maybe I won't be as tempted to throw buckets of hops at my next batch lol!

Royal Wedding tomorrow! No drinking for me because:
A) I'm at work 6pm - midnight
B) I'm teetoal until May 8th when I'm running a half marathon

Cheers!

 

[FL_Brewer]

My ESB & Mild ale have bottle conditioned for 3 1/2 weeks now. I tried one of each last week. I couldn't wait. Both were really good. The ESB was well balanced. The Mild had a really subtle but complex malt and flavor profile. The ESB had great clarity and color, slight chill haze. The Mild had nice clarity too, despite the fact I didn’t do a secondary, cold crash, or isinglass. I really liked the hop flavor, it had a fresh taste to it and it didn’t overpower the malt. The Willamette came through more than the Cascade. Probably had something to do with the fact the Cascade leaf hops were older than the Willamette pellets.

I was only home for less than 48 hours last week, but I managed to try the beers, and brew another robust porter in the process, lol. It was a frustrating brew day. I boiled over for the first time in years. I felt pretty helpless. I was standing right there, I killed the heat and it just kept foaming. My first hop addition was all over the barn floor, so I had to run inside and grab more hops. Also, I missed my SG badly, I’m pretty sure I just measured my grain wrong. Gesh.

I'll be posting my official critique and some pics of the ESB and Mild sometime during the last week of May. I'm actually leaving for Florida later today, be back Sunday.

What are your thoughts on doing a beer exchange? Provided it’s not to cost prohibitive?

 

[FL_Brewer]

Here's the recipe for the Mild:

Original Gravity
1.037 measured
(1.038 estimated)
Final Gravity
1.009 measured
(1.009 estimated)
Color
18° SRM / 35.46° EBC
(Light Brown to Medium Brown)
Mash Efficiency
72% measured


Malt & Fermentables
% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L
42% 3 4 American Two-row Pale 37 1
39% 3 0 Pale Malt (Maris Otter) 37 3
7% 0 8 Simpsons Dark Crystal 34 75
7% 0 8 American Crystal 40L 34 40
4% 0 5 Simpsons Chocolate 27 412
2% 0 2 Briess Carapils 34 1

Hops
use time oz variety form aa
boil 60 mins 0.5 Challenger pellet 7.0
boil 30 mins 0.5 Fuggles leaf 4.2
boil 10 mins 0.25 EKG pellet 4.5
boil 1 min 0.25 Fuggles pellet 4.2
Bitterness 22.9 IBU BU:GU 0.61

Yeast
Wyeast Thames Valley Ale (1275)
Alcohol
3.7% ABV / 3% ABW
(3.9% est. ABV / 3% est. ABW)
Calories
125 per 12 oz.

Misc
use time amount ingredient
boil 10 min 1/2 tsp Yeast Nutrient (WYeast)
boil 15 min 1 tsp Irish Moss
secondary 4 days 2 ounces Isinglass, liquid
bottling 28 days 2 ounces Dextrose

 

[ChillWill]

Wow, you were pretty much spot on with your targets.

I've spent a day at another local brewery, much smaller operation and we brewed an IPA with Amarillo and a small amount of Summit.

The beer swap is a good idea, although wouldn't be able to do it for a few months as my pale ale just isn't worthy. My plan now is to do an oak aged ESB using something like maris, munich, biscuit, crystal and wheat (or flaked barley?). Maybe a little chocolate for colour. Then I'll use Chinook and Goldings again but go light on the late additions. I'd maybe add some Chinook at 15min and then goldings at flameout. Probably put a more concise recipe together and brew it at the end of this month or start of next.

 

[ChillWill]

Tried this recently and it's really good: http://www.innisandgunn.com/index.htm

Going with something similar (oak aging) here's a recipe I'm putting together, sticking with the Atlantic hop theme but with some changes (2.5 US Gallons):

OG: 1.048
FG: 1.011
60min mash 154F
S-04 rehydrated
29 IBU

Malt
2.70 lb Maris Otter 75%
0.40 lb Munich 11%
0.15 lb Biscuit 4.2%
0.15 lb Special B 4.2%
0.20 lb Wheat Malt 5.6%

Hops:
0.40oz Chinook 12.9% 60min
0.35oz Goldings 5.4% 60min
0.15oz Chinook 12.9% 0min
0.15oz Goldings 5.4% 0min

Primary 7 days, then secondary onto oak chips for around 3 weeks (not sure how much yet).

What do you reckon? I want a light amount of hop flavour & aroma with a nice malty base and I think the special B and oak will go really well together. Do you think that's about right for the special B or too much? I might sub a small amount out and replace with a bit of Crystal 50l?

Other ideas...
To try and make it a little more American, maybe I should try and add some American practices such as first wort hopping? UK breweries in my experience just don't do things like that.

I'm planning wheat malt, should I use flaked barley? What was your experience of it, I've heard it can often lead to a hazy beer. The breweries I've been working at favour torrified wheat for body and head retention, maybe I might grab a few ounces of that next time I'm there.

 

[FL_Brewer]

Hey sorry I've been absent for far too long. Ironically, I visited your old stomping ground this past weekend, The OT in Rochester. I really like link you provided (Have you tired the beer?). The bottles and labels are pretty cool, almost Scotch like cool. I have no experience with oak aging in my personal brewing. It has become the hot trend in recent years by home brewers and craft brewers around here. I honestly haven't tried many oak aged beers, but I know they're around. Certainly sounds like a fun experiment.

Recipe looks pretty solid to me. I love to add flaked barley to many beers, it always creates a nice creamy long lasting head. I wouldn't think it would be appropriate for this kind of beer though, although I'm not sure. Flaked wheat would leave some haze, but the aging might allow it to settle out. You're right on with the special b, a little goes a long ways. Adding Crystal 40, 50 or 60 would add a nice sweet caramel note, possibly to balance out the oak essence. I'd pass on the wort hopping, from all of the research and discussions I've heard It's still questionable as to how much hop character the practice actually adds. Plus from what i understand the practice requires a lot more hops to impart just a small amount of character. That can get expensive. I would experiment with the wort hopping on an IPA or Pale ale recipe.

I like that you're not going to big with this beer. I.e. high alcohol. The lower alcohol with allow you develop a better idea of how much impact the oak with have on the final beer. Good luck, let me know how it turns out.

BTW, just some follow-up notes regarding my ESB and MILD. I carbonated the beer way too low, cask like low. I'm contemplating uncapping the bottles and re-priming with more sugar. So note for the future, shoot for 2.5-3 volumes CO2.

On a positive note. I recently purchased a like new upright freezer & digital temp controller so I can better control fermentation temperature. I'm looking forward to doing an Oktoberfest this summer. Also I submitted some beers to a New York regional home brewers competition. My Monster Chocolate Milk Stout took 1st (out of 12 beers in the overall Stout category). I'd be happy to share the recipe if you're interested.

Cheers!

 

[ChillWill]

Hey, the inns and gunn beer is really good, only tried a little bit but really smooth with a nice vanilla flavour.

I did the recipe I posted, missed og as the winter Maris otter crop is poor, local breweries have been struggling with it. Og 1.042, Fg 1.007. I did first wort in a saison and it was really smooth with a theoretical 35 ibu. Bottled the beer Thursday, waiting time! Only did 2.2 vol co2

 

[ChillWill]

The stout sounds good! I like chocolate stouts, got a couple of bottles of southern tier imperial choklat in the cellar.

 

[FL_Brewer]

Yea! That beer sounds like it would be pretty cool. I loved the packaging too, looks like a bottle of Glenlivet or something lol. Did you put your beer on oak chips for 3 weeks in the secondary? How close is Inns and Gunn to where you're at?

1.042 isn't too bad, in this instance i think its better you're under instead of over. I tweaked my barley mill a few months back. . . big mistake. I've been missing my gravities badly (like 50-60 % efficiency) on my last two beers I made. So I'll have to re-adjust everything to get things back to 70-75%. I'm glad you gave me the heads up on the Maris Otter. It's one of my favorites so I'm glad I stocked up months ago.

Just because its easier to share recipes this way, visit my recipe profile on hopville.com. All of my recent recipes are posted there, also I've included some detailed tasting notes in most cases too. You don't have to create a profile to view mine.
http://hopville.com/brewer/aehausman

 

[ChillWill]

I think inns and gunn is in Scotland? I did just over 2 weeks secondary on French medium toast oak. Hopefully it turns out well, I think the oak will help smooth out the beer as the S-04 went a bit crazy even with the higher mash and might have put it out of balance. I think I need to get a house strain liquid yeast that attenuates more around the 75% area.

Maybe west Yorkshire ale yeast as I'm actually in south Yorkshire.

Ever heard of thornbridge brewery? Did a day there last week and may get a job there when their sales team catches up with recent capacity increase.

 

[FL_Brewer]

I might have come across thornbridge. I'll look it up though. You going to be brewing? Either way, congratulations.

 

[terrapinj]

did something somewhat similar last month, been in bottles for 2 weeks now and very much looking forward to trying it soon

OG was around 1.054
FG ended way low at 1.008
mashed around 149.5 which was a few deg lower than I had planned

WLP007 is a beast! i tried to wash the yeast but couldn't get great separation from the trub and pitched about 1/2 gal of slurry into my 1.094 Barleywine which also finished (astonishingly) at 1.008ish - 90% attenuation!

8 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 71.91 %
2 lbs 10.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 23.60 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4.49 %

.50 oz Chinook [10.00 %](60 min)
.50 oz Chinook [10.00 %](30 min)
.50 oz Chinook [10.00 %] (5 min)
1.00 oz Chinook [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)

1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [Starter 2000 ml]

 

[FL_Brewer]

Looks tasty! Just curious, why the honey malt? Something different? What did you calculate for IBU's, 40-50?

 

[ChillWill]

Hi FL brewer... with Thornbridge, it'll most likely start of doing the manual / basic jobs first while learning to brew on the side I guess. There is a lot to learn there, they have their own lab to do yeast cell counts or o2 saturation levels etc etc. They also have a fair bit of automation which would obviously take some getting used to!

WLP007 is the same as S04 right? It is a hungry strain!

The malt base looks a bit different with honey malt in it, let us know how it turns out. I'd have thought a more floral hop would have gone better with it? Although chinook goes well with a good malty base.

 

[terrapinj]

honey malt was to try something different than crystal - it actually goes pretty well with the malt base, I def plan on using it again but in something that's less hoppy

the recipe kept getting changed once I determined I wanted to harvest the yeast so I minimized the hops - IBU came in right around 33 i believe - I know chinook is a bit of a stretch to fall into ESB category but BJCP said american hops are becoming more common/accepted in ESB style so i figured why not

i think the chinook are still a little dominating right now, its still a tasty beer but not as malt balanced as I was trying for but it has a nice malty/honey finish and i've read that the bitterness profile on them will mellow with time as will the aroma so I think it will be a really flavorful easy drinker in a few weeks

 

[FL_Brewer]

Summer's been busy! I have managed to sneak some brewing in now that I have my new freezer and temp controller. I brewed 2 weeks ago, and brewing a pumpkin ale tomorrow.

I received my beer score sheets from the comp which I entered the ESB. I didn't do absolutely awful. It scored a 27, the major critiques were related to issues of balance between malt and hops. One judge felt that the beer lacked malt character & the hops were more prevalent. The other judge wanted more malt complexity and more hops. Both felt the beer needed more overall body. The body was on the lighter side for an ESB.

I think if I were to repeat the recipe I would eliminate a couple of the specialty grains and candied sugar, and just go bigger with the remaining specialty grains. Probably more crystal, flaked barley for better head retention, and more dextrine for body. Also, If I remember correctly the hops I used were older, so I have to use something much fresher next time.

In all 4 of my beers that I submitted none of the judges made any comments regarding any off flavors or major flaws. (I.e. sourness, astringency, esters, diacetyl chill haze, etc.) At least I'm doing something right I guess. lol

Terra ~ How do you think the honey malt would work in a blonde ale? Or what kind of beers were you thinking would work best?

Chill ~A co-worker of mine brought in two beers from Innis & Gunn (original & rum cask) from a beer store in Utica. So I'll be running out to pick them up this week!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30005&stc=1&d=1310959038

 

[ChillWill]

Not too bad a score, I bet its a hard style to score well in as the favours are so subtle the slightest flaws or lack of balance will stick out like a sore thumb.

Have you considered horrified wheat yet? It's what most UK brewers use for head retention and body, i think a good 8-10% on a lowly carbed beer.

Is say good idea to drop the sugar. May look at doing a mash at 148f for 60 then raise to 156f for 30mins, thornbridge do that and its meant to add more body and get the best out the grain.

My oaked bitter has come out nicely! Tastes very much like something I could get in a pub on cask but with a bit of fruitless from the special b and the oak makes it nice a smooth, reckon it'll be better in a few weeks when the oak has blended more into the beer.

Nice find on the inns and gunn, let me know what you think!

 

[terrapinj]

i think the honey would work well with a blonde as long as you don't use too much to overpower the other delicate flavors

i used a 1/2 # in my recipe and even with the strong hop and malt presence you can still taste the honey - maybe something more like 4-6oz would be a better amount to try at 1st dep how much honey flavor you are looking for - i believe it's around 27L as well so also keep that in mind when figuring out SRM