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Review of 30 dry hops

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stickyfinger

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I think this is an interesting thread, but limited and not sticky worthy. It purports to talk about hop flavor, but only from dry hopping? This makes little sense to me and I'm not even convinced that what is being perceived as flavor isn't really aroma. If you want to talk about hop flavor, you really need to add them to the boil. Even if you can perceive flavor from dry hopping, it may be different from the boiled flavor, perhaps.



Also, I think this isn't nuanced enough. For example, some hops give herbaceous flavors or floral aromas. Another example - both Mosaic and Sorachi Ace would be 'citrus' if limited to these decriptors, but very different hops. Sorachi Ace is all lemony and Mosaic is big time orange, grapefruit and mango.
I'd argue that there can be huge hop flavor from a dry hop. I've made several IPAs with NO hops until the dry hop.
 

stickyfinger

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I made an IPA featuring good ol' experimental hop 6277 which eventually was renamed Denali and really really liked it! I wrote up a blog article for it, which I've copied below:

perhaps the pineapple takes over more at higher dry hop levels? I've used it at 2 oz/gal in one beer and 1 oz/gal (along with Eureka!) in another. It was HUGE pineapple for me.

I've also been wondering a lot about how different years, locations, weather, etc. can drastically alter hop character perhaps.
 

Pappers_

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I'd argue that there can be huge hop flavor from a dry hop. I've made several IPAs with NO hops until the dry hop.
I don't mean this in a derogatory way at all - I am truly curious. Have you entered any of those dry-hop-only IPAs in competitions, and if so, what was the feedback?

Also, how did you bitter the beers?
 

stickyfinger

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I don't mean this in a derogatory way at all - I am truly curious. Have you entered any of those dry-hop-only IPAs in competitions, and if so, what was the feedback?

Also, how did you bitter the beers?
no competitions. the dry hop provides adequate bittering for a low-bitterness beer, such as an NE IPA. If you want more, you can add a bittering charge at 60 min or add some flavor/bittering hops later in the boil.
 

Pappers_

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no competitions. the dry hop provides adequate bittering for a low-bitterness beer, such as an NE IPA. If you want more, you can add a bittering charge at 60 min or add some flavor/bittering hops later in the boil.
I think common wisdom is that dry hopping adds little bitterness, if any. Here's a thread about it https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=236983 I double checked and BeerSmith assumes no bitterness from dry hopping when it does its calculations.

I've never tried it nor have I ever tried a dry-hop-only beer, so can't speak from personal experience. How long do you dry hop for?
 

stickyfinger

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I think common wisdom is that dry hopping adds little bitterness, if any. Here's a thread about it https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=236983 I double checked and BeerSmith assumes no bitterness from dry hopping when it does its calculations.

I've never tried it nor have I ever tried a dry-hop-only beer, so can't speak from personal experience. How long do you dry hop for?
I guess this info hasn't been as widely circulated as I thought. There is more evidence that IBUs and bitterness can be derived solely from the dry hop:

http://scottjanish.com/increasing-bitterness-dry-hopping/

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hopping-effect-bitterness-ibu-testing/

http://scottjanish.com/zero-hot-side-hopped-neipa-hplc-testing-sensory-bitterness/

https://hopsteiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TQ-53-3-0808-01.pdf

There is definitely an increase in bitterness from using dry hopping. I know this is not the conventional wisdom. I think it may also be possible that tannins or polyphenols in hops add bitterness during the dry hop stage. It is easy to test this out for yourself. Just try adding a very large dry hop charge to a split-batch of beer. you will find that the dry-hopped version has a more bitter, dry flavor. It is very, very smooth though compared with a large kettle hop addition early in the boil. This is why dry hopping alone can be used to provide the bitter edge to a beer, especially if you are doing a beer that is more smooth and soft in bitterness in general, such as NE IPA.

Now, if you like a very pronounced bitterness, dry hopping will not be adequate. I think that can vary based upon the hop varietal, how many beta acids are in the hops and possibly other factors, but in that case you would need to add an early boil addition.

It has been my standard practice to dry hop around day 5 in primary and then leave it for 5 days, chill and then rack to keg. I remember a Brulosophy XBMT that seemed to indicate that 1 or 1.5 days of dry hopping led to a more dank, intense dry hop character compared with a longer one though, so i have been debating adding two charges again, one at day 3-5 and one a day before cold-crashing. I think it was maybe the long vs cold dry hop length XBMT?
 

kingmatt

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Very interesting stuff but using dry hopping for most, or all, of your bitterness doesn't make much sense to me. Seems like you would need to use a lot more hops and get way less ibus than with kettle additions, plus there is a fine line to the amount of hops you can add in the dry hop before you start running into issues (vegetal flavors, wort loss etc).
 

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Nice write up .You report a lot of pine flavor to hops. I noticed while I was brewing my experimental beer from leftover wort (re-rinsed the grains) that hops boiling smells like weed. Anyway, its funny you write about Apollo being dank . I have some and used it in this small 2.5 gallon batch at the rate of .25 oz at start of boil and .25 oz again at the last 20 minutes, this is in what I am calling a hopped Belgian. I started with the grains I had leftover after mashing for a hefeweizen which still had some sugars left and I hated to toss it out (waste not want not). So I added some dextrose and raw honey to up the OG to 1.038. I added orange zest ,lime zest and 1 tbsp coriander(at the 20 minute mark). So far it has a week left to ferment ,but the taste right now (to me , everyones taste is different)is a nice bitter citrusy beer I would put a slice of juicy sweet orange in at serving and be totally refreshing on a hot summer day. Much like a Blue Moon but hoppier. I call it Moon Over Miami Hopped Belgian. I'm anxious to taste it finished.
 

Pappers_

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I guess this info hasn't been as widely circulated as I thought. There is more evidence that IBUs and bitterness can be derived solely from the dry hop:

http://scottjanish.com/increasing-bitterness-dry-hopping/

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hopping-effect-bitterness-ibu-testing/

http://scottjanish.com/zero-hot-side-hopped-neipa-hplc-testing-sensory-bitterness/

https://hopsteiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TQ-53-3-0808-01.pdf

There is definitely an increase in bitterness from using dry hopping. I know this is not the conventional wisdom. I think it may also be possible that tannins or polyphenols in hops add bitterness during the dry hop stage. It is easy to test this out for yourself. Just try adding a very large dry hop charge to a split-batch of beer. you will find that the dry-hopped version has a more bitter, dry flavor. It is very, very smooth though compared with a large kettle hop addition early in the boil. This is why dry hopping alone can be used to provide the bitter edge to a beer, especially if you are doing a beer that is more smooth and soft in bitterness in general, such as NE IPA.

Now, if you like a very pronounced bitterness, dry hopping will not be adequate. I think that can vary based upon the hop varietal, how many beta acids are in the hops and possibly other factors, but in that case you would need to add an early boil addition.

It has been my standard practice to dry hop around day 5 in primary and then leave it for 5 days, chill and then rack to keg. I remember a Brulosophy XBMT that seemed to indicate that 1 or 1.5 days of dry hopping led to a more dank, intense dry hop character compared with a longer one though, so i have been debating adding two charges again, one at day 3-5 and one a day before cold-crashing. I think it was maybe the long vs cold dry hop length XBMT?
Thanks, very interesting. As he mentions, i'm not surprised that the bitterness character is different than in a standard-brewed beer.

I remain skeptical, but I think it would be great to get a full-blown anonymous BJCP-like feedback on a dry-hopped only IPA.
 

stickyfinger

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Very interesting stuff but using dry hopping for most, or all, of your bitterness doesn't make much sense to me. Seems like you would need to use a lot more hops and get way less ibus than with kettle additions, plus there is a fine line to the amount of hops you can add in the dry hop before you start running into issues (vegetal flavors, wort loss etc).

Part of the point of an NE IPA for a lot of people is to produce a very low bitterness beer that has the most hop flavor possible. In that quest, it is possible to achieve adequate bittering and extreme flavor through using only dry hops. If you want more bitterness, add hops early in the boil.

The point is not to use dry hopping to get bitterness. The point is that a huge dry hop is an excellent way to get very strong hop flavor in a beer and, as a side benefit, there is some bittering from that. Many people may not realize that additional bittering may not be needed to suit their tastes.
 

Owly055

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Kudos to the OP!!

I don't know how I missed this thread before, but it's got real value to me currently. I greatly appreciate the time spent to do this and to post the results.

I am currently doing my continuous brew process, which is a pale ale, in a Fast Ferment. Each week, I pull off 2 gallons for secondary, and decide what to do with my new addition. Total fermenter volume is 6 gallons. The flavor and character change gradually, but I'm finding that dry hopping is becoming an important part of the process which makes each brew more distinctive than it would otherwise be. I choose hops and malts for my addition, and my dry hop program for the weekly draw, both based on a tasting from the fermenter on Saturday AM. This guide is a real potential asset, and I'm printing it out as a quick reference to help with the dry hopping.

Thanks very much for your work!!


H.W.
 

stickyfinger

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Nice write up .You report a lot of pine flavor to hops. I noticed while I was brewing my experimental beer from leftover wort (re-rinsed the grains) that hops boiling smells like weed. Anyway, its funny you write about Apollo being dank . I have some and used it in this small 2.5 gallon batch at the rate of .25 oz at start of boil and .25 oz again at the last 20 minutes, this is in what I am calling a hopped Belgian. I started with the grains I had leftover after mashing for a hefeweizen which still had some sugars left and I hated to toss it out (waste not want not). So I added some dextrose and raw honey to up the OG to 1.038. I added orange zest ,lime zest and 1 tbsp coriander(at the 20 minute mark). So far it has a week left to ferment ,but the taste right now (to me , everyones taste is different)is a nice bitter citrusy beer I would put a slice of juicy sweet orange in at serving and be totally refreshing on a hot summer day. Much like a Blue Moon but hoppier. I call it Moon Over Miami Hopped Belgian. I'm anxious to taste it finished.

i've heard of Apollo giving orangey flavors
 

Pappers_

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The point is that a huge dry hop is an excellent way to get very strong hop flavor in a beer and, as a side benefit, there is some bittering from that.
Flavor and aroma are intertwined, or our perceptions of them are. Plus the flavor derived from a hop at 65F versus boiling is going to be different, I would imagine.

All of this would be a terrific experiment with sensory trained judges to evaluate.
 

masonsjax

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Here is a good write-up summarizing the most recent research on hop bitterness and perception. A complex topic for sure and more light is being shed on the facts at an ever increasing rate. Don't get too dogmatic about your current hop dosage regimen, the best practices are likely to change a bit as we better understand things.

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hopping-effect-bitterness-ibu-testing/
 

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