Reusing yeast - without washing

[severum]

I have been brewing for sixteen years. Never washed yeast once. Not worth the effort. As long as you are re-pitching with similar styles or within reason.......pale ale to a stout....but not necessarily an DIPA to a cream ale. Wasted wasted effort. Period.

Severum

 

[BrewKnurd]

Ha! Interesting! Listening further along in the Brewstrong I referenced above, JZ just said that prior to pitching, he adds sterile water to the yeast, shakes it up, and allows the trub to settle, then pitches the liquid. So apparently he DOES rinse yeas, he just does it right prior to pitching, rather than prior to storing, which is interesting, because I've typically heard that one of the advantages of rinsing is yeast health during storage.

So, updated, it sounds like Jamil advocates pre-pitch rinsing of sorts. I guess its directionally less likely to cause sanitation problems, because there's no time for any bacteria you introduce during rinsing to reproduce prior to being pitched into the full wort?

 

[cyclonite]

Ha! Interesting! Listening further along in the Brewstrong I referenced above, JZ just said that prior to pitching, he adds sterile water to the yeast, shakes it up, and allows the trub to settle, then pitches the liquid. So apparently he DOES rinse yeas, he just does it right prior to pitching, rather than prior to storing, which is interesting, because I've typically heard that one of the advantages of rinsing is yeast health during storage.

So, updated, it sounds like Jamil advocates pre-pitch rinsing of sorts. I guess its directionally less likely to cause sanitation problems, because there's no time for any bacteria you introduce during rinsing to reproduce prior to being pitched into the full wort?

This is essentially what I do if I am re-pitching a yeast cake. I will do a 1-step washing (instead of my normal 2-step):
1) Boil up about 1/2 gallon of water, let it cool to room temp.
2) Rack beer off of yeast cake.
3) Pour boiled water into fermenter and give it a good swirl/shake.
4) Cool fermenter for about 1/2 to 1 hour to let trub particulates precipitate
5) Pour contents into sanitized 1 gallon jar (pour until you start getting trub sludge)
6) Put jar in fridge (usually overnight) and let other particulates precipitate
7) Decant liquid until yeast starts to pour out
8) Pitch the rest into wort

Doing this, you don't get much trub sludge - most of what you are getting is the washed yeast. You do get more sludge than a 2-step washing (the only difference is at step 7, you pour into individual jars until you hit trub sludge), but I think it is minimal. I used washed yeast calculations for my pitch rate when doing this. Works great, minimal work, and I usually get a lag time of < 6 hours.

 

[bigbeergeek]

This is essentially what I do if I am re-pitching a yeast cake. I will do a 1-step washing (instead of my normal 2-step):
1) Boil up about 1/2 gallon of water, let it cool to room temp.
2) Rack beer off of yeast cake.
3) Pour boiled water into fermenter and give it a good swirl/shake.
4) Cool fermenter for about 1/2 to 1 hour to let trub particulates precipitate
5) Pour contents into sanitized 1 gallon jar (pour until you start getting trub sludge)
6) Put jar in fridge (usually overnight) and let other particulates precipitate
7) Decant liquid until yeast starts to pour out
8) Pitch the rest into wort

Doing this, you don't get much trub sludge - most of what you are getting is the washed yeast. You do get more sludge than a 2-step washing (the only difference is at step 7, you pour into individual jars until you hit trub sludge), but I think it is minimal. I used washed yeast calculations for my pitch rate when doing this. Works great, minimal work, and I usually get a lag time of < 6 hours.

This seems oddly backward at points. Glad it works for you.

 

[bcryan]

This is essentially what I do if I am re-pitching a yeast cake. I will do a 1-step washing (instead of my normal 2-step):
1) Boil up about 1/2 gallon of water, let it cool to room temp.
2) Rack beer off of yeast cake.
3) Pour boiled water into fermenter and give it a good swirl/shake.
4) Cool fermenter for about 1/2 to 1 hour to let trub particulates precipitate
5) Pour contents into sanitized 1 gallon jar (pour until you start getting trub sludge)
6) Put jar in fridge (usually overnight) and let other particulates precipitate
7) Decant liquid until yeast starts to pour out
8) Pitch the rest into wort

Doing this, you don't get much trub sludge - most of what you are getting is the washed yeast. You do get more sludge than a 2-step washing (the only difference is at step 7, you pour into individual jars until you hit trub sludge), but I think it is minimal. I used washed yeast calculations for my pitch rate when doing this. Works great, minimal work, and I usually get a lag time of < 6 hours.

In step three you said you pour boiled water into fermenter. Wouldn't boiling hot water kill the yeast??

 

[BrewKnurd]

In step three you said you pour boiled water into fermenter. Wouldn't boiling hot water kill the yeast??

I'll answer on his behalf. Boiled and then chilled water. Boiled, not boiling.

 

[earwig]

My comments were to people scooping up yeast trub and all and just pitching varying amounts of it willy/nilly not being concerned about the amount of trub etc. Harvesting from a fermenter that lets you run out most of the trub first is not the same. It isn't full blown rinsing but it sure isn't what people in here were talking about when I started chiming in. Also, adding water and letting it settle like Chris does is washing the yeast; not the best job but he is able to separate some of the yeast from the trub. I haven't read or heard of anyone who would do what the folks were talking about in the beginning of this thread.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Truth be told, I usually add a gallon or so of clean water to the cake to loosen it up, leave in roughly one cup of yeast and whatever else, pitch new wort on.

This may be a bastardized washing even though washing is not the intent.

 

[earwig]

Truth be told, I usually add a gallon or so of clean water to the cake to loosen it up, leave in roughly one cup of yeast and whatever else, pitch new wort on.

This may be a bastardized washing even though washing is not the intent.

I guess whatever works for you. I tried to at least come close to pitching the right amout that a receipe calls for.

 

[CPFITNESS]

My comments were to people scooping up yeast trub and all and just pitching varying amounts of it willy/nilly not being concerned about the amount of trub etc. Harvesting from a fermenter that lets you run out most of the trub first is not the same. It isn't full blown rinsing but it sure isn't what people in here were talking about when I started chiming in. Also, adding water and letting it settle like Chris does is washing the yeast; not the best job but he is able to separate some of the yeast from the trub. I haven't read or heard of anyone who would do what the folks were talking about in the beginning of this thread.

But if people pitch directly on top of a yeast cake all the time, why couldn't you do what was being talked about in the start of the thread. The notion of off flavors doesn't make sense to me, all that stuff is just gonna settle right back to the bottom not to mention that stuff gets created while fermenting anyways and it doesn't cause off flavors. seems to me like it is feasible for it to work.
I'm a time is money kinda guy, I recently washed yeast a couple times just to learn how to do it but honestly, I'm brewing beer for me and some friends, I'm not a corporation, I'd rather just tack 6 bucks onto the cost of my batch and buy new yeast. I also live in a small apt so keeping it stored in the fridge is an issue

 

[beninan]

Everyone has different opinions and practices I guess.

You said it yourself. Just had to point that out. No need to keep trying to convert people to do practices that you feel are the right way. Like I like to say: If we all did something only one way, because someone before us says it's the only way to do it, we would all be naked and still living in caves.

As for me, I have washed my yeast a couple times, but I don't anymore. I feel it works just as well to wash or not wash, and I haven't seen any ill effects from not washing. If you wash, you do run a much higher risk of infecting your yeast compared to not washing, but in return you do get clean yeast. Depending on the batch, the amount of trub will be minimal in comparison to the amount of beer you are pitching it into. So unless you are making a Coor's Extra Extra Extra Light clone, I don't think you would notice any difference in taste with the little bit of trub from harvested yeast. Unless of course, you are pitching an ENTIRE yeast cake into your beer.

When I want to harvest the yeast from a batch, I have to plan ahead before I even make the batch that I am harvesting from. Normally I throw all the hops and everything into the batch all willy-nilly and let it do it's thing. If I am going to harvest from that batch of beer, I'll contain all the hops as best as I can in nylon bags, and I'll let the batch sit for an hour or so after cooling to help settle out all the break material. When fermentation is complete, the yeast is much cleaner that if I didn't bother with separating the hops out, but it's still not perfectly clean.

I'm still waiting for someone to taste my beer and say, "Did you used unwashed yeast? Because it tastes like you did."

 

[cyclonite]

I'll answer on his behalf. Boiled and then chilled water. Boiled, not boiling.

What he said ;-). Boiled, as in sanitized (cooled to room temp). Yeah, boiling water would be bad!

 

[earwig]

Beninan, I just choose to try and get as close to the proper pitching amount as possible. I never suggested that people who don't wash the yeast were making crappy beer. I just like to be able to replicate something again or share it with people. Pitching different amounts changes the flavor of the beer and the amount of time that it takes to "age". Its whatever... I was just giving my opinion and trying to explain why I feel this way. I have to say... I never had an infected batch of washed yeast or beer and it takes me maybe 15 minutes tops. I think the time spent is worth it.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I never suggested that people who don't wash the yeast were making crappy beer.

No, but you did state that not washing was a "horrible practice", so perhaps you'll excuse anyone for thinking you may have been implying that.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Beninan, I just choose to try and get as close to the proper pitching amount as possible. I never suggested that people who don't wash the yeast were making crappy beer. I just like to be able to replicate something again or share it with people. Pitching different amounts changes the flavor of the beer and the amount of time that it takes to "age". Its whatever... I was just giving my opinion and trying to explain why I feel this way. I have to say... I never had an infected batch of washed yeast or beer and it takes me maybe 15 minutes tops. I think the time spent is worth it.

I usually wash my yeast (although I packed up two mason jars of unwashed cake yesterday after following this thread ) and it does not take 15 minutes. You have to boil/cool water, which takes the better part of an hour, then spend as much as 40 minutes washing (if you do the double wash as described in "yeast washing illustrated"). It yields a beautifully "clean" product that has never caused infection in my experience, but it takes considerably more time than dumping cake in a jar.

 

[earwig]

I usually wash my yeast (although I packed up two mason jars of unwashed cake yesterday after following this thread ) and it does not take 15 minutes. You have to boil/cool water, which takes the better part of an hour, then spend as much as 40 minutes washing (if you do the double wash as described in "yeast washing illustrated"). It yields a beautifully "clean" product that has never caused infection in my experience, but it takes considerably more time than dumping cake in a jar.

I only wash once and prepare everything at the same time as I am getting my bottling stuff clean etc. Filling a small pot with water and letting it cool while I am bottling takes me really no time at all. I don't count the time that the trub/yeast is sitting in the fridge separating "work" time.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I guess whatever works for you. I tried to at least come close to pitching the right amout that a receipe calls for.

Implying that I am not?

Come off it big guy.

Sure I am eyeballing it, but with out a really specialized computer and an electron microscope, SO ARE YOU. How can you claim to be more accurate than me?

Wanna compare beers?

Name it.

 

[Gear101]

I have four or five cases of Three Floyds bottles, 12oz in des moines iowa, pick up only

Will be gone by the middle of may 2012 if no one comes to get them.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I have four or five cases of Three Floyds bottles, 12oz in des moines iowa, pick up only

Will be gone by the middle of may 2012 if no one comes to get them.

And these are what you use to wash your yeast?

 

[SecretBrew]

Wanna compare beers?

Name it.

U guys should have a beer off! I can be the judge!

 

[cheezydemon3]

3 floyds bottles have been proven to wash yeast by themselves with no effort.

Fill the bottles with yeast cake sludge and leave in a warm moist place, preferably a barn or out house.

Around midnight, the yeasty wash fairies will swoop in (assuming no bears are near) and scrub each little yeasty with their little lufas.





SO DO YOU WANT THE DAMNED THINGS OR NOT????!??!?!??!?!!!!

 

[earwig]

Implying that I am not?

Come off it big guy.

Sure I am eyeballing it, but with out a really specialized computer and an electron microscope, SO ARE YOU. How can you claim to be more accurate than me?

Wanna compare beers?

Name it.

I come closer by measuring it (the clean slurry) depending on what I am brewing. Are you the guy who "leaves a cup behind" in the fermenter? I can't keep up

 

[BrewKnurd]

SO DO YOU WANT THE DAMNED THINGS OR NOT????!??!?!??!?!!!!

sorry, I have a *censored*. Good luck.

 

[Petekiteworld]

I have washed and also just pitched slurry. Now I just pitch slurry because it makes no difference in beer quality and saves a few minutes. If I brewed seldomly then I would wash because it seems a better way to store yeast long term but I'm always brewing so no need.

A lot of brewers take this hobby so seriously that they would break out a microscope if they could and count the number of yeasties pitched. I say don't worry, have a homebrew.

 

[taa800]

I started this thread over a year ago and was very interested in everones replies. Since then, I have been just saving and pitching slurry. I've never had a problem with this. I've pitched yeast up to 6 months old - from the date I harvested it. Again, no problem.

I'm sure there are people that feel this is unjust, but it's been working great for me. So that's all that matters. I like to discuss topics like this to get peoples' opinions, and this was pretty well split, so I picked a way and went with it. I'm glad I did.

 

[eastoak]

I started this thread over a year ago and was very interested in everones replies. Since then, I have been just saving and pitching slurry. I've never had a problem with this. I've pitched yeast up to 6 months old - from the date I harvested it. Again, no problem.

I'm sure there are people that feel this is unjust, but it's been working great for me. So that's all that matters. I like to discuss topics like this to get peoples' opinions, and this was pretty well split, so I picked a way and went with it. I'm glad I did.

this is the best way to settle things, do it and see what happens. i see so many people on here just go with what others say (wash vs no wash, O2 vs shaking, dry vs rehydrate and so on) then stick with it no matter what because it's "what i heard".

 

[KiterNick]

Its hard to switch habits...I was a bleach and water guy on my first batch, because I didn't have Stars San. Then, when I had good beer I didn't want to change...keep brewing using the same sanitization ritual. Finally, I just figured I would try it....and was very nervous. Sanitized stuff without a 20 min soak, sounds too good to be true...

It was an awesome change, but hard to switch and lots of stress until I had a few batches under my belt using Stars San. I still fight the urge to do a periodic bleach soak...

Now I'm struggling with yeast. I have done 3 generations twice, then buy new yeast...each time is a lot of stress, so far so good...have not been washing the yeast, but try to get a layer that is not trub...

 

[nthammer]

This is one of the best discussions I've found on yeast washing. And this is one of my favorite things about brewing beer, there is no 100% right way to do most things, it comes down to your OWN style.

I've got several brews under my belt now, and everytime I've tried a couple new techniques, as im just feeling around finding what I like best.

I am going to start saving yeast as I currently have 4 active yeasts in fermenters right now (775 cider, 1056, 1028 london ale, and 1945 nb) and would love to have a 'yeast library' and this thread has givin me a lot of insight on how I would like to go about that...

so thank you EVERYONE for your thoughts and opinions.

 

[Squill]

I added clean, cooled boiled water to the carboy after removing the beer. Swished it around and poured it into a tall glass. Let it settle for a few minutes for the heavy debris to settle to the bottom. Pour the top liquid/yeast into a bottle and cap it. Throw out the heavy debris. Use the bottled yeast for your starter. I don't believe the bottled yeast needs to be refridgerated. It's basically a highly yeasty beer.

 

[Gavin C]

I have never washed yeast. I simply scoop about a quart of slurry from the fermenter w/ a large sanitized ladle into a zip lock bag. To pitch, I simply sanitize the outside of the bag and cut a top corner w/ sanitized scissors, pour off excess liquid and add to the fermenter. Very easy and seems to work a charm.

Different approach. I must try it. I usually wash and store for months. Didn't recently with a Hefeweizen and I'm not overly concerned. I think your getting junk no matter what you do.