Reusing Wyeast 1388 for BOMM?

[roweman07]

So, I read somewhere that someone makes the BOMM mead per the recipe, but they reuse the yeast cake because they find the yeast to be expensive. I have to order it, so I do to. Prohibitively so. I think I read that they just siphon off their mead, dump all new ingredients in, and let it do it's thing. And they repeat it twice. That would be pretty freaking fantastic.
Does anybody have any insight into this? Any practical experience.

 

[madscientist451]

Yes, you can use the whole yeast cake or save the yeast slurry in a sanitized jar and use half of it. I re-use my yeast up to 7-10 times, but you can stretch it way beyond that if you are careful with it.

 

[bernardsmith]

I have a project where I re-use the slurry from a hard to obtain yeast (WLP 066) a number of times but ... BUT... I aim for low ABV - session meads and work not to stress the yeast I use. You may find that higher ABV meads create stress and such stress may play out in a subsequent batch in unpredictable ways.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

You could also make a big stepped up starter from a fresh pack. Then save half, and pitch the other half. That way you always are using yeast that is less stressed than if you were to re-use cake several times.

 

[Miraculix]

I have a project where I re-use the slurry from a hard to obtain yeast (WLP 066) a number of times but ... BUT... I aim for low ABV - session meads and work not to stress the yeast I use. You may find that higher ABV meads create stress and such stress may play out in a subsequent batch in unpredictable ways.

I try to do the same and the only way I see to keep some sweetness is either via malt or pasteurising or chemicals which is all kind of a trade off that somehow sucks. May I ask how you keep your session meads from drying out completely?

 

[roweman07]

Yes, you can use the whole yeast cake or save the yeast slurry in a sanitized jar and use half of it. I re-use my yeast up to 7-10 times, but you can stretch it way beyond that if you are careful with it.

Do you have more info on this? It sounds like this would be the most helpful for me. Does letting the mead go dry hurt the yeast at all?

 

[roweman07]

I know absolutely nothing about this side of mead making. So every detail that I can get is necessary. Is there any literature that can be recommended? I need to not blow my budget on something then screw it up right off the bat.

 

[zonkman]

I asked this exact question (with the added step of washing the yeast) on a popular mead making forum. The first commentor: "You are going to have some award winning mead makers disagree on this one".

Indeed. Pro: "I wouldn't even consider it". Another pro: "I did reuse quite a few Wyeast 1388 cakes when I was making BOMM recipes a couple of years ago. Worked fine for me then."

Go for it!

+1 for making a large starter, and setting some yeast aside from there. That would be the best way. Generally, home mead makers don't really do starters though. Also debated.

 

[madscientist451]

I asked this exact question (with the added step of washing the yeast) on a popular mead making forum. The first commentor: "You are going to have some award winning mead makers disagree on this one".

Indeed. Pro: "I wouldn't even consider it". Another pro: "I did reuse quite a few Wyeast 1388 cakes when I was making BOMM recipes a couple of years ago. Worked fine for me then."

Honey is expensive, dry yeast is pretty cheap, so to a pro mead maker it doesn't make too much sense to re-use yeast.
For the home brewer, making one gallon batches of mead makes a lot of sense, you can try things at minimal cost.

 

[roweman07]

8

Honey is expensive, dry yeast is pretty cheap, so to a pro mead maker it doesn't make too much sense to re-use yeast.
For the home brewer, making one gallon batches of mead makes a lot of sense, you can try things at minimal cost.

I definitely see where you are coming from but this specific recipe calls for Wyeast 1388, which is relatively cheap unless shipped. Which is my only option.

 

[bernardsmith]

I try to do the same and the only way I see to keep some sweetness is either via malt or pasteurising or chemicals which is all kind of a trade off that somehow sucks. May I ask how you keep your session meads from drying out completely?

Simple question but the answer is a little complex - not complicated just complex.
a) I like dry wine so drinking a brut mead is not a problem for me. (Coke or Pepsi or any soda for that matter tastes sickeningly sweet to me)
b) if the mead seems to me to be flavor thin (because I am using only 1 lb - 1.5 lbs of honey in a gallon) I add spices or fruit or herbs - My gruit mead medalled a couple of years ago at the mazer cup. ( I use 1 tablespoon of each of the gruit herbs per gallon and make a tea from these herbs and use the tea to mix with the honey - I am about to experiment in the next few days adding echinacea to the gruit herbs (heather, yarrow, mugwort, sweet gale)
c) I carbonate. Carbonation does not add sweetness but it does add the perception of more flavor and it is flavor that I am looking for.
d) I have been experimenting with 5-7 day meads (yes! bottling after a week). That often means there is still a few points of residual sweetness. You have to keep these bottles in the fridge.
e). For my session meads I look for varietal honeys - (not clover or wildflower but raspberry or avocado or neam (an Indian honey), Tupelo.. These honeys are flavor rich.

 

[Miraculix]

Simple question but the answer is a little complex - not complicated just complex.
a) I like dry wine so drinking a brut mead is not a problem for me. (Coke or Pepsi or any soda for that matter tastes sickeningly sweet to me)
b) if the mead seems to me to be flavor thin (because I am using only 1 lb - 1.5 lbs of honey in a gallon) I add spices or fruit or herbs - My gruit mead medalled a couple of years ago at the mazer cup. ( I use 1 tablespoon of each of the gruit herbs per gallon and make a tea from these herbs and use the tea to mix with the honey - I am about to experiment in the next few days adding echinacea to the gruit herbs (heather, yarrow, mugwort, sweet gale)
c) I carbonate. Carbonation does not add sweetness but it does add the perception of more flavor and it is flavor that I am looking for.
d) I have been experimenting with 5-7 day meads (yes! bottling after a week). That often means there is still a few points of residual sweetness. You have to keep these bottles in the fridge.
e). For my session meads I look for varietal honeys - (not clover or wildflower but raspberry or avocado or neam (an Indian honey), Tupelo.. These honeys are flavor rich.

Thanks for the detailed answer Bernard. I see we are on the same quest, I also really like to work with gruit herbs and I like session meads (just had one from a London based brewery, it was a bit sweet but overall very good). I will try to make a 5 abv mead, following your suggestions regarding carbonation and gruit herbs. Going to be interesting!

Another thing I am experimenting with at the moment is braggots. When mashed very high, it is easy to keep some malt based residual sweetness. The next on my list was a 10abv gruit bragott, again, same road.

Edit: what I forgot to ask, what is your favorite session mead yeast?

 

[bernardsmith]

I don't know that I would say I have a favorite session mead yeast. I love what Belle Saison yeast can do. My go to yeast is D47 and I have been experimenting with an English ale yeast WLP 066 which I have re-used three or four times. With session meads it is also not expensive to simply experiment with the yeasts indigenous to the honey. Made a lovely mead from a batch of raw Brazilian honey.
With braggots, since I am not trying to brew a particular style of beer - in my book a braggot is a drink sui generis - neither mead nor beer - I am happy to use dry malt extract which I can then either add to the must or brew separately and blend with the mead. Adding malt means I know there will be residual sweetness (10 -15 points/lb/gallon BUT I recently made a chocolate bochet/braggot where I used chocolate malt (not really fermentable) as the dominant flavor and it was among my favorites (4 oz chocolate malt boiled in 1 gallon of water 15 minutes to which I added .5 oz EKG hops boiled another 15 minutes to which when cooled I added 1 lb of caramelized clover honey (2 hrs in a slow cooker) plus another .5 lb of raw clover honey). DV10 yeast. Stabilized (a mistake, I think) Just before bottling I added some home made chocolate extract and some lemon extract and some brown sugar (about 4 oz). The addition of this sugar was the reason for stabilizing but I do not have a kegging system and so cannot force carb. This would have been outstanding (IMO) if I had carbed this but still, it was very drinkable.

 

[Miraculix]

I don't know that I would say I have a favorite session mead yeast. I love what Belle Saison yeast can do. My go to yeast is D47 and I have been experimenting with an English ale yeast WLP 066 which I have re-used three or four times. With session meads it is also not expensive to simply experiment with the yeasts indigenous to the honey. Made a lovely mead from a batch of raw Brazilian honey.
With braggots, since I am not trying to brew a particular style of beer - in my book a braggot is a drink sui generis - neither mead nor beer - I am happy to use dry malt extract which I can then either add to the must or brew separately and blend with the mead. Adding malt means I know there will be residual sweetness (10 -15 points/lb/gallon BUT I recently made a chocolate bochet/braggot where I used chocolate malt (not really fermentable) as the dominant flavor and it was among my favorites (4 oz chocolate malt boiled in 1 gallon of water 15 minutes to which I added .5 oz EKG hops boiled another 15 minutes to which when cooled I added 1 lb of caramelized clover honey (2 hrs in a slow cooker) plus another .5 lb of raw clover honey). DV10 yeast. Stabilized (a mistake, I think) Just before bottling I added some home made chocolate extract and some lemon extract and some brown sugar (about 4 oz). The addition of this sugar was the reason for stabilizing but I do not have a kegging system and so cannot force carb. This would have been outstanding (IMO) if I had carbed this but still, it was very drinkable.

Wow, belle Saison would have been the last yeast I would have considered

I have one pack in my fridge since long time and no idea what to do with it... That just changed.

Thanks for the heads up!

Btw. I also thought about a chocolate braggot. Some Crystal malt, roast barley, chocolate malt and either pale or chevallier malt mashed at high temperature. Going to be something for future brews

 

[bernardsmith]

Wow, belle Saison would have been the last yeast I would have considered

Belle Saison adds lovely peppery notes and again, if I am using only one pound or a scant 1.5 lbs (a starting gravity of about 1.050 (+/-) - typically I use more water not less honey so that I fill one gallon carboys if I rack from my bucket) then I want to highlight as many flavor notes as I can. That means that with session meads I usually place the primary in a bath of water kept warm with an aquarium heater. The higher heat DOES create additional flavors but those flavors are preferred (IMO) in meads with lower starting gravities and lower ABVs.. In other words, if you are looking to bang in a nail a screw driver is no good but if what you have is a screw then it's not a hammer that you want...

 

[Miraculix]

Belle Saison adds lovely peppery notes and again, if I am using only one pound or a scant 1.5 lbs (a starting gravity of about 1.050 (+/-) - typically I use more water not less honey so that I fill one gallon carboys if I rack from my bucket) then I want to highlight as many flavor notes as I can. That means that with session meads I usually place the primary in a bath of water kept warm with an aquarium heater. The higher heat DOES create additional flavors but those flavors are preferred (IMO) in meads with lower starting gravities and lower ABVs.. In other words, if you are looking to bang in a nail a screw driver is no good but if what you have is a screw then it's not a hammer that you want...

Well, that actually really makes sense. I love the idea with the aquarium heater, I might try that with a kveik.