Residual hop characteristics from a yeast cake?

[EkieEgan]

I have yet to pitch onto a yeast cake. I been reading and reading about the pros and cons and as I understand both sides, I think it's worth trying at least once. However, I couldn't find much regarding hops and IF they may impart any characteristics on the fresh wort. Say for instance, I rack off an IPA and want to use the yeast cake for an imperial stout? The IBU's in an imperial are up there too, but I want the beer to stay in style. Will the yeast cake affect the new brew?

 

[porterpounder]

The cake won't affect the IBUs, but a lot of green hop matter can lend a vegetal flavor to the next beer. Check out some threads on yeast rinsing. If nothing else it should reduce some of the green hop matter in the next pitch.

 

[fnbrew]

I agree with rinsing the yeast in this case because it's an IPA cake. I usually will only use half of a yeast cake to avoid getting a huge layer of trub that can be more difficult to rack off cleanly. Also a whole yeast cake is way over pitching for most bears and that can strip away some of the flavors you may be shooting for.

 

[EkieEgan]

I have washed yeast from time to time. I'm just curious if washing defeats the purpose of the cake? Do you just do a wash and then add it back into the fermenter? From what I've read, people like the cake technique because it allows you to ferment without having to clean and resanitize your carboy? Perhaps an IPA cake isn't ideal for a RIS?

 

[BroStefan]

Check out the sticky in the Yeast forum "Simple yeast storage process." He did the work.

 

[Aristotelian]

I have washed yeast from time to time. I'm just curious if washing defeats the purpose of the cake? Do you just do a wash and then add it back into the fermenter? From what I've read, people like the cake technique because it allows you to ferment without having to clean and resanitize your carboy? Perhaps an IPA cake isn't ideal for a RIS?

For me it is also about being able to save my favorite yeasts and not having to purchase new yeast. Not having to re-sanitize is a bonus but it's not my primary purpose, so I don't mind washing the old yeast.

 

[bobo31]

Every time I get a new yeast I make a 2 liter starter. I decant some of the yeast from the starter in to a sanitized jar. Label it and put it in the fridge. Then pitch the remainder of the starter. I figure this puts me in the ball park as far as yeast count goes. I generally don't brew anything over 7 or 8% abv. Then next time I want to use that yeast I make a new 2 liter starter and repeat. This keeps the yeast from ever being stressed by high alcohol or hops. I think my oldest generation is 7 and that is Vermont IPA yeast. In 2 years I only have ever had one starter that wasn't "right" and that was San Diego Super Yeast. I always keep a few dry packets on hand for situations like that. US-05 saved the day.

 

[didinho]

From what I've read, people like the cake technique because it allows you to ferment without having to clean and resanitize your carboy?

I always move the beer to a new carboy after vigorous fermentation. in this secondary fermentor there is no hop-protein on the bottom, it's just yeast. I use this when I want to ferment on the same cake

 

[TurnipGreen]

This is one of those things that you can spend a lot of time on or very little time and you will still make fantastic beer. 'Cause bottom line is you are wanting bigger, fresher, healthier yeast.

I you the from the simple yeast storage sticky. I don't rinse and I don't store the yeast for more than two months. I don't even bother to make a starter with stored yeast. I have never noticed a vegetal flavor in my beers from stored yeast. Not to say it can't happen, but I like to start simple and build from there.

Saving yeast is really fun and it pretty cool when you stop and think about it. Why not try the simplest method. Get a system down, then if you notice off flavors from hop residue or the last batch of beer try washing. If you don't notice those things, skip the washing steps like a lot of us do.

At worst you will have a couple batches of really good beer to drink while you game out your next brew days.

 

[EkieEgan]

I always move the beer to a new carboy after vigorous fermentation. in this secondary fermentor there is no hop-protein on the bottom, it's just yeast. I use this when I want to ferment on the same cake

Are you moving it to the secondary while it's still actively fermenting or waiting for fermentation to complete as most of us do? I suppose moving it while it's actively fermenting would work. I just didn't know if this would shock the yeast somehow?

 

[EkieEgan]

TurnipGreen said "I have never noticed a vegetal flavor in my beers from stored yeast."

I never have either. I have been harvesting yeast for years, but I usually save it from the secondary, if I do a secondary. It's just cleaner. However, I wondered about the hops in the yeast cake of an agressively hopped IPA as the cake is quite a bit of yeast and the full trub. I am actually fermenting a saison right now on a cake from a previous saison. I did save some of the cake in a jar before dumping the new beer on it. Talk about a violent fermentation lol..ok..no one told me that my blow off tube was not adequate. I had to run to the hardware store to buy 4 feet of 1.5" OD tubing to shove into my carboy because my normal cap and tube were completely blown off! I had yeast and foam and beer dripping from my pantry ceiling!! 12 hours after fermentation started, this is what I got hahaha!

 

[didinho]

Are you moving it to the secondary while it's still actively fermenting or waiting for fermentation to complete as most of us do? I suppose moving it while it's actively fermenting would work. I just didn't know if this would shock the yeast somehow?

I wait 5-6 days (longer for lagers), till the fermentation signals are weak (no bubbling, foam collapsing) then I move to a clean carboy: in this second carboy the cake is cleaner