Refinishing a table - need some help

[Barley_Bob]

Hey folks! There's probably whole forums on the internet about woodworking. But I'm drinking homebrew while refinishing the table. So obviously, this is the forum for me!

I haven't done real woodworking since high school. I'm handy. I've done a fair amount of home remodeling on my own and I've done quite a bit of metalwork. I do good work. Most of this refinishing project is straightforward, but I have one issue I'm not sure how to handle.

So, I'm refinishing this coffee table I was gifted. Apparently, at one time the set was worth $1,800, but it sure isn't now! It needs love. Anyway, here's my trouble. The table has windows in the top. Granite slabs are set in those windows, resting on a lip that runs all the way around the inside of the windows. The slabs pop out easily as they're just resting in there.

The slabs are not flush with the table top at all. And worse, they wobble. For costing $1,800, some of the craftsmanship is questionable. I'll be damned if I'm not going to fix it. I just don't know how. I have ideas, but I'd love input. For reference, here's a picture of the table:



Thanks for your help!

 

[ancientmariner52]

Hey folks! There's probably whole forums on the internet about woodworking. But I'm drinking homebrew while refinishing the table. So obviously, this is the forum for me!

I haven't done real woodworking since high school. I'm handy. I've done a fair amount of home remodeling on my own and I've done quite a bit of metalwork. I do good work. Most of this refinishing project is straightforward, but I have one issue I'm not sure how to handle.

So, I'm refinishing this coffee table I was gifted. Apparently, at one time the set was worth $1,800, but it sure isn't now! It needs love. Anyway, here's my trouble. The table has windows in the top. Granite slabs are set in those windows, resting on a lip that runs all the way around the inside of the windows. The slabs pop out easily as they're just resting in there.

The slabs are not flush with the table top at all. And worse, they wobble. For costing $1,800, some of the craftsmanship is questionable. I'll be damned if I'm not going to fix it. I just don't know how. I have ideas, but I'd love input. For reference, here's a picture of the table:



Thanks for your help!

I can't see the picture, but I think I understand. I'd add small wood screws to the lip (known as a rabbet) so that the granite rests on the screws. Adjust the screws until the granite pieces are all level across the top and don't rock. Then glue the granite in place with clear silicone caulk. You can use little spots of caulk so the granite can be removed some day, or use long beads and forget taking it apart in future. Good luck!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

The slabs may not have been intended to be flush. If they are consistent, on average, the reveal may be part of the design. Variations in reveal could be from wood movement. You could try to shave down the rebate (aka rabbet) but also risk losing some of the strength to carry those slabs.

As mentioned before, beads of silicone caulk could be used to stabilize the slab wobble.

Is it possible the table could have been in un-conditioned storage for any length of time? I'd suggest you let the table acclimate for a week or two if that is the case.

 

[Barley_Bob]

These are solid suggestions. Thank you!

I'm not sure how the table was stored. It may be that it was unconditioned. I'm not ready to play with this part of the project yet, so it'll have time to sit.

My plan was to shave down the rabbet. But the reveal is substantial in some spots, and shaving it down will be a lot of work. Before I do that, I'll shuffle the slabs around to figure out where they fit best. But I was expecting that to be a lot of work.

I like the idea of the screws. The top of the slabs is rough, so the reveal is not going to be 100% even all the way around. But if I got all the corners to an even 1/8" above flush (for example), that could be really nice. It just depends on how much work I want to do and what result I'll be happy with.

Thoughts?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I'll add...
A couple schools of thought on this; adjust the tile or adjust the wood.

adjusting the tile. First rotate the tile and refit it. It is very possible that the tile is not completely flat and will only sit flat in a certain orientation. If it's wobbly no matter what, then as mentioned before, a few dabs of silicon will hold it in place. If you want it easier to remove in the future you can put masking tape on the table and the tile wherever the silicon will be applied.

Adjusting the wood. Using either lipstick, pencil lead, or charcoal mark up the underside edge of the tile where it meets the table. Put the tile in place with a little pressure to transfer a mark into the rabbet. remove the tile and sand, chisel, plane, or grind the marks off. Continue until the tile sits without wiggling.

The easy way...get a set of wobble wedges and stick 'em in the gaps from underneath.

 

[ancientmariner52]

These are solid suggestions. Thank you!

I'm not sure how the table was stored. It may be that it was unconditioned. I'm not ready to play with this part of the project yet, so it'll have time to sit.

My plan was to shave down the rabbet. But the reveal is substantial in some spots, and shaving it down will be a lot of work. Before I do that, I'll shuffle the slabs around to figure out where they fit best. But I was expecting that to be a lot of work.

I like the idea of the screws. The top of the slabs is rough, so the reveal is not going to be 100% even all the way around. But if I got all the corners to an even 1/8" above flush (for example), that could be really nice. It just depends on how much work I want to do and what result I'll be happy with.

Thoughts?

I see the picture now. I didn't consider the slabs standing proud of the table top. If you are ok with that, then wood screws from below would make it easy to adjust them all more or less the same. Set them in with silicone, and in a day or two you can remove the screws if you wish. You could do the same with shims, but screws would make it easier.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Adjusting the wood. Using either lipstick, pencil lead, or charcoal mark up the underside edge of the tile where it meets the table. Put the tile in place with a little pressure to transfer a mark into the rabbet. remove the tile and sand, chisel, plane, or grind the marks off. Continue until the tile sits without wiggling.

I'm not sure I understand this. I understand the sand, chisel, plane, or grind part and I can do that. I'm not sure how to mark the rabbet so that I can do this correctly.

This was my original plan. I'm still not sure which direction I want to go.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm not sure I understand this. I understand the sand, chisel, plane, or grind part and I can do that. I'm not sure how to mark the rabbet so that I can do this correctly.

This was my original plan. I'm still not sure which direction I want to go.

You want to apply something, opaque enough and liquid enough, to the bottom outer edge of the tile so that when you set it into the rebate (rabbet) it will transfer the areas of contact from the tile to the top of the rebate. This, essentially, show the "high points" of the rebate to pare away (you'd only shave the areas where the paint made contact until the tile sits properly). BUT this has a caveat. You MUST mark the tile in such a way so that you do not confuse it location on the table or it's orientation within the recess.

You'd essentially be scribing the rebate to a specific tile for a custom fit.

 

[Barley_Bob]

You want to apply something, opaque enough and liquid enough, to the bottom outer edge of the tile so that when you set it into the rebate (rabbet) it will transfer the areas of contact from the tile to the top of the rebate. This, essentially, show the "high points" of the rebate to pare away (you'd only shave the areas where the paint made contact until the tile sits properly). BUT this has a caveat. You MUST mark the tile in such a way so that you do not confuse it location on the table or it's orientation within the recess.

You'd essentially be scribing the rebate to a specific tile for a custom fit.

oooooooooh. I get it. I have some time to think about it. No matter what, I'll be marking all the windows and slabs so that this never gets confused.

Happy to hear more input, and I really appreciate all the insights!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

oooooooooh. I get it. I have some time to think about it. No matter what, I'll be marking all the windows and slabs so that this never gets confused.

Happy to hear more input, and I really appreciate all the insights!

As mentioned before, you should test fit the tiles in the different windows before you mark anything. Very well could be the rebates are already customized to a certain tile and the association got lost in the move.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Or just look for a different, thinner tile that won't stand proud out of the rabbet. Or have glass cut to size to fit in it, of an appropriate thickness.

 

[Barley_Bob]

As mentioned before, you should test fit the tiles in the different windows before you mark anything. Very well could be the rebates are already customized to a certain tile and the association got lost in the move.

Will do!

Or just look for a different, thinner tile that won't stand proud out of the rabbet. Or have glass cut to size to fit in it, of an appropriate thickness.

This is a solid recommendation, but I have an outside an opinion to keep in mind. The stock slabs stay.

 

[GaBrewZoo]

Instead of taking material off of the rabbett, why not come up with a way to take material off of the slabs. You would basically be making a rabbett on the underside of the slabs and not weakening the wood. Granite is not that hard to cut or grind.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Instead of taking material off of the rabbett, why not come up with a way to take material off of the slabs. You would basically be making a rabbett on the underside of the slabs and not weakening the wood. Granite is not that hard to cut or grind.

I don't know how to do that, but it's an option. I can imagine they would sit more solid in their slots this way too.

 

[ancientmariner52]

I don't know how to do that, but it's an option. I can imagine they would sit more solid in their slots this way too.

I've studied the pictures, are you certain that is granite? It's hard to be sure, but it looks more like slate to me. I don't wish to argue with anyone, but I'm pretty sure granite is extremely difficult to cut. That is why it is used for machinist's surface plates and for monuments intended to last forever. Slate, on the other hand, could be easily sanded or ground with a Dremel tool. Just don't breathe the dust. Best to work outdoors, it will be messy.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

If the slabs are flat, then use a rabbetting router bit to take off 1/32" at a time until you get your desired level of flushness. Use a sharp chisel to clean the corners. If the slabs are not flat, then its time for some sand paper and a frustrating afternoon of check and check again.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I've studied the pictures, are you certain that is granite? It's hard to be sure, but it looks more like slate to me. I don't wish to argue with anyone, but I'm pretty sure granite is extremely difficult to cut. That is why it is used for machinist's surface plates and for monuments intended to last forever. Slate, on the other hand, could be easily sanded or ground with a Dremel tool. Just don't breathe the dust. Best to work outdoors, it will be messy.

Oh yeah. It's slate. My bad. I initially ruled out adjusting the stone at all, so I just didn't pay much attention to its composition.

If the slabs are flat, then use a rabbetting router bit to take off 1/32" at a time until you get your desired level of flushness. Use a sharp chisel to clean the corners. If the slabs are not flat, then its time for some sand paper and a frustrating afternoon of check and check again.

The slabs are flat. Or they at least pass the eye test. I'll run a square over them and find out.


At this point, I'm leaning toward adjusting the rabets. I haven't been home to work on this, so I still haven't fussed with orienting them to see where they fit best. I'll put a little work in Saturday night. As a side note, there's a bunch of varnish gumming up the corners of the rabets, and I suspect that when all of that's removed, they'll already sit better. We'll see.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Alright, I'm looking for some thoughts on the stain color. This isn't a great picture, but I tried three (from left to right) - Cabernet, light cherry, golden pecan. I applied each as a single coat for 10 minutes. I'd appreciate thoughts on each of these as well as on any others you'd recommend.

 

[Barley_Bob]

So, I'm getting closer to finishing this. Most of the table has been stripped and sanded, although I still have two sides to go. Those sides absolutely kill my hands. There's a little channel I have to sand out that runs all the way around the table. It's terrible.

Anyway, I have fitted one of the pieces of slate! It took a good while, but I was able to chisel out the rabbets to create a custom fit. I thought I would get all 4 corners flush, but I eventually realized that was no good because the slate isn't totally flat. I got the corners as close as possible, with the rest of the slate averaging flush. It does have the teeniest wobble, but I'll put in a drop of silicone. In total, I took off about 1/8th an inch all the way around the rabbets supporting it. Just 3 to go...

The panel that's in does look way better. I think the designer wanted the panels to be slightly above flush, but they clearly never tried to fit anything. They made a table and slapped in some slate.

 

[Gravitysucks]

I'm a bit late to the post but it looks like you have it figured out. I was a cabinet maker for a yacht builder and you'd be surprise at the weird stuff owners wanted incorporated into their woodwork. When it comes to inlays, unless you have control over the thickness you always undercut the framework and shim it to make the inlay fit. Unless both sides are visible, wedges and silicon are your best friend.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I'm a bit late to the post but it looks like you have it figured out. I was a cabinet maker for a yacht builder and you'd be surprise at the weird stuff owners wanted incorporated into their woodwork. When it comes to inlays, unless you have control over the thickness you always undercut the framework and shim it to make the inlay fit. Unless both sides are visible, wedges and silicon are your best friend.

I'm getting there. All it takes is time and patience...

What's the craziest thing you've incorporated into woodwork?

 

[Gravitysucks]

I'm getting there. All it takes is time and patience...

What's the craziest thing you've incorporated into woodwork?

We did a lot of inlay/ marquetry work, usually in nautical themes. Elaborate compass roses were popular for cockpit and settee tables.
One of the craziest things we had a request for was back when flat screen tv's first became popular. The owner of an older boat wanted the tv to rise and lower out of the back of the settee in the main cabin. There were no commercial lifts available a the time so we had to design and build our own. And to complicate things further, we weren't allow to change any of the existing woodwork other than to cut a slot approximately 3" by 30" in the back of the settee for the tv to drop into. Between having to cut out the slot in such a way as to be able to reuse the piece that was cut out as a cap on the top of the tv so the settee look original when the tv was lowered, and having to design, build, install, and wire the lift in an area you could barely get your arm into, the whole project was a nightmare.

 

[Barley_Bob]

We did a lot of inlay/ marquetry work, usually in nautical themes. Elaborate compass roses were popular for cockpit and settee tables.
One of the craziest things we had a request for was back when flat screen tv's first became popular. The owner of an older boat wanted the tv to rise and lower out of the back of the settee in the main cabin. There were no commercial lifts available a the time so we had to design and build our own. And to complicate things further, we weren't allow to change any of the existing woodwork other than to cut a slot approximately 3" by 30" in the back of the settee for the tv to drop into. Between having to cut out the slot in such a way as to be able to reuse the piece that was cut out as a cap on the top of the tv so the settee look original when the tv was lowered, and having to design, build, install, and wire the lift in an area you could barely get your arm into, the whole project was a nightmare.

Wow... I hope you charged a ton of money.

By the way, I settled on golden pecan for my stain. I think the lighter color will really let the slate pop.

 

[Gravitysucks]

Wow... I hope you charged a ton of money.

By the way, I settled on golden pecan for my stain. I think the lighter color will really let the slate pop.

I think the contrasting colors will look great. Look forward to seeing pictures of it when you're done.
As far as charges go, pretty much everything we did was custom work and customers were generally charged "time plus materials". With the type of people we dealt with money tended not to be a concern when it came to their toys. The way some of them spent money it really made me wonder how they became wealthy in the first place.

 

[applescrap]

Fun, cant wait to see it. Sounds like he is already done, but would cutting rabbets out and installing thin board under for slate to sit on worked. Or planks under to hold slate up? At this point, i think hand picking some new tile would be worthwhile as well. Why not customize it a little?

 

[Barley_Bob]

I think the contrasting colors will look great. Look forward to seeing pictures of it when you're done.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I'm going to put some time into it this weekend. I'm s

Fun, cant wait to see it. Sounds like he is already done, but would cutting rabbets out and installing thin board under for slate to sit on worked. Or planks under to hold slate up? At this point, i think hand picking some new tile would be worthwhile as well. Why not customize it a little?

I like the idea of putting in some new tile. I'm not going to do that with this table (for a variety of reasons), but maybe my next step is building something brand new myself. And then I bet I can find some really nice tile for that.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I see the picture now. I didn't consider the slabs standing proud of the table top. If you are ok with that, then wood screws from below would make it easy to adjust them all more or less the same. Set them in with silicone, and in a day or two you can remove the screws if you wish. You could do the same with shims, but screws would make it easier.

I'm getting closer to being ready for this (3 slabs are fitted and it's almost all stripped and sanded). When I inject the silicone, how can I make sure the slabs will pop out? My dream is to have dots of silicone all the way around to make sure the slabs don't wobble and stay snug. They're really heavy, so I want to be able to take them out for moving.

 

[LittleRiver]

Wax or wax paper are what I use to keep glues from sticking to things.

 

[applescrap]

What about a latex caulking? Even with silicone as long as it's not the silicone with adhesive I doubt it'll be too hard to get off. I think a cheaper product like dap might work as well

 

[ancientmariner52]

I'm getting closer to being ready for this (3 slabs are fitted and it's almost all stripped and sanded). When I inject the silicone, how can I make sure the slabs will pop out? My dream is to have dots of silicone all the way around to make sure the slabs don't wobble and stay snug. They're really heavy, so I want to be able to take them out for moving.

As Littleriver says, wax or wax paper will work. I've had good luck using petroleum jelly to keep silicone from sticking.
Edit: you don't need a lot. Just the four corners should do it.