American Pale Ale Red Chair NWPA clone

[robgundy]

I really enjoy Red Chair. I have some in the fridge now. Once I get all my home brew gear unpacked, I will have to try this one.
Even my wife enjoys Red Chair. Deschutes is my fav and I live in Bend so they are just down the street from me.

 

[Oldbrew75]

Good timing. Actually, it is kegged and carbed now, so I did just do a taste test. Fortunately, with this year's batch of Red Chair just hitting the shelves, I was able to compare it to a fresh one. I have my girlfriend test along with me because I think her palate is slightly different, so it's good to get some comparison. Here are my latest notes:

Appearance - I had a little chill haze, so it appears slightly darker, but it's pretty close still. Close enough that I wouldn't tweak anything.

Aroma - Again, very close. I sense just slightly more Cascade in the actual Red Chair, but it's very slight. My girlfriend swears they're identical. The amount of aroma seems equal.

Taste - This is always the tough one. Overall taste is quite similar. I would say mine has a slightly higher perceived bitterness, but I think this might be accounted for more in water profile than actual recipe design. The bitterness seems to linger more in the finish more so than actually be more bitter. Hop flavor seems to be the same. Sweetness seems to be the same. I think the combination of Crystal malts helped round out the malt profile.

Mouthfeel - Here's where I noticed the most difference. The fresh Red Chair just seemed softer, smoother, and more well-blended where I still felt mine was a little bit heavier and kind of muddled. I felt like mine just sort of landed on my tongue with more of an impact where the Red Chair seemed to wash over with a better layering of flavors and feeling.

So, my first inclination is to up the Pilsner Malt a fair amount and drop the 2-Row down to try to get a softer mouthfeel. Second, I might tweak the water a bit to bring down the perceived bitterness. Third, I might still consider some tweaks to the C40/C90/Carastan combination to up the C40 more and drop the C90 just a bit. This might make the flavor profile a little "cleaner" in that there's slightly more sweetness and not so much of the darker flavors.

All in all, it's really close and very drinkable, but I'm still going to keep working at it!

What are you using for water CRJpilot?

 

[crjpilot]

What are you using for water CRJpilot?

I cut my tap water by 60% and ended up with:

Ca: 74ppm
Mg: 5ppm
Na: 16ppm
SO4: 81ppm
Cl: 65ppm
HCO3: 55ppm

My tap water is very hard. I went with the "Amber Balance" profile on Bru'n Water as a target.

 

[SilverZero]

I'm brewing this up on Saturday based on the OP and scaled up to 10.5 gallons:

18.00 lb Great Western Pale Malt (3.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) UK (1.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Carastan (30.0 SRM)

This gets me to 1.066 at 75% efficiency. Mashing at 154F and 1.5qts/lb for 70 minutes or so.

0.75oz Apollo @ 20.1% - FWH 90 minutes (33.6 IBUs)
0.75oz Summit @ 17.7% - Boil 60 minutes (26.9 IBUs)
3.0oz Centennial @10.5% - Boil 15 minutes (17.0 IBUs)
4.0oz Cascade @ 7.3% - Aroma steep 40 minutes (0.0 IBUs)

Total 77.5 IBUs (Rager). I mixed up the bittering hops because I've got the Apollo and Summit in the freezer and I don't usually have issues subbing out for a smaller amount of high AA hops. Leaf hops are expensive and, you know, Obamacare.

2pkg S-04, ferment at 65F for 2 weeks and then transfer to kegs and cold crash, carb, and enjoy. Or I might try to do a pressurized fermentation if I can get my gear together in time.

 

[te-wa]

AZ, Pilot: can you post your latest findings, i'd like to brew this soon. going over the full 7 pages it seems like the original recipe is what i should shoot for?
and i want to make a 2L starter... with 005 or 1098?

 

[crjpilot]

AZ, Pilot: can you post your latest findings, i'd like to brew this soon. going over the full 7 pages it seems like the original recipe is what i should shoot for?
and i want to make a 2L starter... with 005 or 1098?

I would go with the changes I made on post #52 on the page prior to this one. I think the split of C40/C90 turned out pretty good and I think a little more Pilsner would be good as well. I've used 1968 with every batch and been pleased with it, especially in terms of flocculation. That was the batch I felt was closest.

Sent from my HTC One using Home Brew mobile app

 

[hired_goon]

I brewed this up a couple months ago and bottled it. I had to do an extract version. It's winter and my garage isn't heated. I live in Canada. The one upside, is, no wort chiller required in winter, as you can throw the brew pot into a snow bank.

After reading the thread there seemed to be some debate as to dry hop or not dry hop. I split my batch and dry hopped half.Red Chair is pretty tough to get around here, but coincidentally, I went on vacation about the time the bottles were ready and was able to sample some Red Chair again to compare.

I would say I prefer the dry hopped batch and it seemed to have more of a hop punch like Red Chair. But the copper colour was beautiful, and the aroma and taste were excellent. Great, long lasting lace. This will definitely be my go to recipe from here on in.

Thanks to the OP!

 

[te-wa]

9 nw pale (great western)
1 Munich 60
1.4 Pilsner
.5 C40
.5 C90
1.3 rye
Mash @ 153
1.5 centy @ FW
.75 centy @ 20 min
.75 centy @ 10 min
2 cascade @ 0 min
s-04 at 65 for 21 days

*edit: somehow, i overlooked the carapils and carastan and didnt use any when brewing this beer. oh well. i will end up with a rye pale that should be drinkable although nowhere near the intended goal. thanks, Obama!

 

[SilverZero]

Just tasted my first sample of this out of the keg. It's FANTASTIC! I'm going to do a blind side-by-side tomorrow with the real thing.

I did it exactly as I said a couple of posts above, except I used 11lbs of 2-row and 7lbs of GW Pale malt, as I still had some 2-row to use up and I figured it would be a good starting point. I'll do the next one all Pale to see how it changes the body. I used German pilsner because I didn't know which to get. I included some brewing salts as well to get some oomph into this Bend water. I also ended up with better efficiency than I had calculated, so I had to dilute from 1.073 down to 1.067 with about 0.8gal water, which brought my pre-boil volume up to about 13.6 gallons.

I fermented about 24 days in a sanke keg with a Johnson controller and the probe taped to the side, wrapped in a towel and a blanket. Started at 64F, brought it up to 66F after about a week and a half. I built a spunding valve in the meantime, hooked that up, but by then the bulk of the gas was already gone. Still, if the gauge is correct (I'm not sure it is) I got up to about 12psi at 66F, so I retained a bit of carbonation.

Cold crashed it for 4 days at 40F, split it into two kegs last night, put 30psi on each and put them in the fridge. Tonight they're down to about 14psi, I hooked up a cobra tap and tested one, and it's really nice! mostly foam, but I'm attributing that to the short line and the higher carbonation that hasn't settled in yet. It was a fast pour. Looking forward to how this one plays out - I think it's a winner!

 

[te-wa]

brewed this finally, but with 1.3 lbs rye malt and reduced the 2 row (great western) to 9lbs on a 155 mash.
hit .061 at 80 degrees. in a few more minutes im pitching s-04.
lookin good so far.

without any carapils, i hope i still get some foam. blonde moment!!
my lhbs doesnt even carry cara-stan, i could have gotten UK crystal but forgot that too! double blonde moment!!

*update: FG finished at .019 giving it a 5.5% abv. good enough, i guess. the rye added a dimension that i am happy with. so much so, id like to do a ruthless rye clone, too!

 

[opiate82]

Just a quick "Thank-You" for this recipe. I used the grain bill to make a pale ale featuring Mosaic hops just to see what the hop was like and it turned out so great I have entered it into a couple of contests and have scored 40+ in each, getting 2nd out of 38 APA entries in one of them. Only getting dinged because it was a little too hoppy for the 10A category (oh well!).

Hop Schedule I have been using:

0.75oz Millenium- 60min
1.00oz Mosaic- 15min
1.00oz Mosaic- 5min
1.00oz Mosaic- Flame Out
1.00oz Mosaic- Dry Hop (5 days)

 

[DIXIEBOY1]

How many.gallons of water do you use to mash, sparge and boil? This is one of my favorite beers and i'll be trying this soon. Thanks in advance.

 

[DustyBrew]

That is Awesome. Love doing the Red Chair Clone.

 

[DustyBrew]

I have done this 3 or 4 times. The last , it was much better about 5 to 6 weeks after I Kegged. Not sure why it changes.

 

[bob1852]

How many.gallons of water do you use to mash, sparge and boil? This is one of my favorite beers and i'll be trying this soon. Thanks in advance.

It really depends on your system/process.

I usually mash with ~5 gallons, batch sparge until preboil is ~7 gallons, boil off to ~5.7 and wind up with ~5.3 gallons into the fermenter.

 

[te-wa]

i got the goods to make this again.. which is usually about every 3 to 4 batches. i have modified the recipe slightly so as not to be a perfect clone like you dudes have worked out, but more malty and slightly sweeter. here's what i'm doing tomorrow:
10lbs 4oz great western 2 row
2lbs maris otter
1lb 4oz domestic Munich
1lb german Pilsner
.5lb crystal 40L
.5lb crystal 90L
.5lb carapils
.5lb carastan

Mash @ 154

1.5oz Centennial @ 60
.75oz Centennial @ 30
.75oz Centennial @ 15
whirlfloc
1oz Cascade @ 5
1oz Cascade @ flameout

wlp007 @ 66 for 3 weeks, then keg.

this should be a little nuttier, slightly higher ABV and a little sweeter. depending on how the 007 does.. sometimes i hit 80% with this yeast.

og 1.082
fg 1.021
srm 12.5
ibu 71.3

 

[te-wa]

btw, i mixed up my yeast jars and happend to pitch the chimay Trappist strain, raised to 70 after a week, then found an amazing "belgian" strong pale ale. a happy, happy accident.

 

[saccw]

I had Red Chair at the Deschutes taphouse in Portland a couple of years ago and immediately put it on my "need to make this" list. I haven't been brewing much lately but did a 6-gallon batch based upon post #52 with a couple of minor tweaks;

12.0lb US 2-row
1.2lb Munich
1.2lb Pilsner
0.6lb Crystal 40L
0.6lb Crystal 80L
0.6lb Carastan
0.6lb Honey Malt
1.8oz Centennial 10% (60min)
0.9oz Centennial 10% (15 min)
0.9oz Centennial 10% (5 min)
0.4oz Centennial 10% (0 min)
2.0oz Cascade 5.6% (0 min)

Mashed at 150 for 90 minutes

Pitched with 1098 with a large starter. Intended to leave in primary for 21 days, but I got sick so it sat in the primary for 33 days. Ambient temperatures in my garage were in the mid- to high-50's, glass carboy wrapped up in a towel. Added gelatin 3 days before bottling.

OG (predicted @70%) 1.071
OG actual 1.069

FG predicted 1.017
FG actual 1.012

This beer was definitely a home run. The best beer I've ever made. I happened to find myself back in Portland this weekend and stopped by the Deschutes taphouse and the Red Chair is on tap. The menu described the original as 6.2% ABV and 80 IBU. I can't do a side-by-side but I'd say the original has an incredibly similar malt profile, similar aroma, but heavier on the bittering hops. But I actually liked my version better. If I did this again, I wouldn't change a thing. [EDIT: WHEN I do this again (guaranteed), I won't change a thing]

 

[eelgerg]

What are your thoughts about swapping Northern Brewer for Centennial in the OP? I have the cascade.....

 

[Yooper]

Bob had the Deschutes beer in Texas, and he loved it.

He asked me to clone it, so I'll try. The caveat is that I don't have any carastan, carapils, or commercial cascade or centennial hops (only homegrown).

So I'm making this beer, but changing it due to what I have on hand. I'll follow the recipe as close as I can, but it won't be all that close due to my supplies. But thank you for such an excellent starting point! I think it looks awesome.

 

[crjpilot]

I had Red Chair at the Deschutes taphouse in Portland a couple of years ago and immediately put it on my "need to make this" list. I haven't been brewing much lately but did a 6-gallon batch based upon post #52 with a couple of minor tweaks;

This beer was definitely a home run. If I did this again, I wouldn't change a thing. [EDIT: WHEN I do this again (guaranteed), I won't change a thing]

Glad it came out awesome. It was several minor tweaks to get me to what I posted in #52 and it really is a winner anywhere around that recipe!

 

[TheMadKing]

Just bottled my batch of this recipe. I missed my OG because of efficiency and volume issues with a new brew pot, but the beer that we just bottled was spectacular! I'll call it a session NWPA that isn't quite red chair but aging will only make it better!

Just a question though, didn't the original red chair batch have spruce needles in it? I thought I read that that was what defined a NWPA?

 

[Munich_Mouser]

I have been meaning to take the knowledge in this thread and convert it to an extract brew, and finally did so this weekend. I thought I'd post the recipe and let everyone know how it goes in 7 weeks or so. My hops are lower than most here due to personal preference (but seemingly also recipe accuracy: according to TastyBrew the below recipe has an IBU of 57 vs. Red Chair's stated 60). So far it looks and smells amazing in the fermenter.

Water - 6.3 gal

Steeping Grains (30 min @ 158*):
1.5 lb Carapils
1 lb 60L
1 lb Munich
0.5 lb Carastan

Extract (60 minute boil):
6 lb light DME

Hops:
1 oz Centennial (45 min)
1 oz Cascade (14 min)
1 oz Cascade (9 min)

Yeast (added at ~68*):
White Labs 001 (no starter, just let the tube warm to room temp and dumped)

 

[Deklin]

I forgot to add carastan malt to my batch. How much effect will this have on it?

 

[ThomperYT]

I forgot to add carastan malt to my batch. How much effect will this have on it?

Probably going to lose the color and some flavor.

Malt Properties from a few different web sites:

Carastan is a British crystal malt with a caramel/toffee flavor and hints of toasted bread.

Carastan is a malt similar to Crystal malt produces by the Crisp Malting group in the UK. The flavor, is a bit more of a Toffee sort when compared to American Crystal.
The product is sold in ranges rather than one particular Lovibond value (13 to 17L and 30 to 37L.) When formulating a recipe, I always just take the average Lovibond value and use that.

 

[briantompo]

Hi,
What's the purpose of the 1lb of Pilsner malt in this recipe on pg1? My limited knowledge makes me think that little bit of pils (roughly 8%) would get lost amongst the other, bolder malts. Does it really make a difference?
I brewed 2.5 gals of AZ IPA's recipe and it was absolutely delicious. I brewed it again without the Pilsner and it was a different beer. Granted, I made several process changes between the two batches but I'm curious if the recipe change had that large an effect. I used Crisp Pale Ale malt as my base and just increased it by the amount of pils I left out.
I've got grain to brew this again and this time, I included the pils against the recommendation of the LHBS dude.

Thanks, Brian

 

[bob1852]

Hi,
What's the purpose of the 1lb of Pilsner malt in this recipe on pg1? My limited knowledge makes me think that little bit of pils (roughly 8%) would get lost amongst the other, bolder malts. Does it really make a difference?
I brewed 2.5 gals of AZ IPA's recipe and it was absolutely delicious. I brewed it again without the Pilsner and it was a different beer. Granted, I made several process changes between the two batches but I'm curious if the recipe change had that large an effect. I used Crisp Pale Ale malt as my base and just increased it by the amount of pils I left out.
I've got grain to brew this again and this time, I included the pils against the recommendation of the LHBS dude.

Thanks, Brian

I chose it based on the ingredients listed on their website:

http://www.deschutesbrewery.com/beer/red-chair-nwpa/

I believe I chose the amount (1lb) based on what a sack of pilsner would be for their bbl production size - scaled down to ~5 gallon batches. Just a total guess, but I imagine a brewery scales their recipes based on sacks of grain, not lbs/oz.

I agree with you that it shouldn't really make much of an impact, but for some reason it does...

 

[alexacuna]

Excited to brew this one today.

 

[hired_goon]

kind of dumb process question, but when you add the 2oz of cascades after the boil is complete are you leaving the hop bag in the brew pot until it is chilled and moved to the fermenter? if not how long are you leaving the hops in the kettle for?

With IPAs and such where additions are made right up to flameout, I've been finding great results in using a hop stand technique. Cool the wort slightly to about 170. Turn the chillier off and let the whole thing sit for 20-30 minutes. then chill the rest of the way. I'm finding really good hop flavour and aroma when doing this.

 

[Matt_man]

I think something has gone wrong. I got a 1.078 OG and a post boil volume of 5 gallons on the dot. I just pitched the yeast (S-04) too. Any suggestions? Would it be too late to top of with bottled water?