red ale original recipe check

[PastorofMuppets]

This is my own original recipe made with beersmith. I just started playing around until it seemed right to me. I would like to know anyones thoughts on this and if you think it will turn out tasty.


6 lbs light DME
12 oz amber DME
8 oz crystal 40
4 oz chocolate
4 oz carapils
4 oz aromatic malt
1 oz fuggles 60 min
.5 oz fuggles 45 min
1.25 oz east kent goldings 30 min
.50 fuggles at flame out
wyeast 1084 irish ale with 1000 ml starter. no stir plate

Beer smith says this will be est 1.060 OG
28.3 IBU
15.3 SRM
5.9 estimated ABV

I am looking for a clean nice house ale with a good copper red color but balanced malt hop profile.


I need opinions and feed back please

 

[rklinck]

This is my own original recipe made with beersmith. I just started playing around until it seemed right to me. I would like to know anyones thoughts on this and if you think it will turn out tasty.


6 lbs light DME
12 oz amber DME
8 oz crystal 40
4 oz chocolate
4 oz carapils
4 oz aromatic malt
1 oz fuggles 60 min
.5 oz fuggles 45 min
1.25 oz east kent goldings 30 min
.50 fuggles at flame out
wyeast 1084 irish ale with 1000 ml starter. no stir plate

Beer smith says this will be est 1.060 OG
28.3 IBU
15.3 SRM
5.9 estimated ABV

I am looking for a clean nice house ale with a good copper red color but balanced malt hop profile.


I need opinions and feed back please

Generally looks fine to me. If it was me, I would use all light DME. You can always adjust color with the specialty grains. I make an Irish Red that is nearly all pale malt with color coming from 4 ozs. each of Crystal 40, Crystal 80, and Roasted Barley (300L). It is a deep reddish copper color.

Did you adjust the alpha for the hops? My red comes out with 24.2 IBUs and I use .5 oz additions of EK Goldings at 60, 30, 15, and 5. I would have thought your recipe would have a higher IBU than you came up with.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Thanks for the feedback.
I only posted what beersmith came up with for the IBU.
I will make some adjustments to the hops. Alpha acids and IBUs are still very confusing for me.

 

[rklinck]

Thanks for the feedback.
I only posted what beersmith came up with for the IBU.
I will make some adjustments to the hops. Alpha acids and IBUs are still very confusing for me.

Beersmith has default values for the alpha levels for each hop. From year to year, the actual alpha levels vary, so you need to adjust the the alpha level to match the levels in the hops you actually buy. For the East Kent Goldings, for example, Beersmith default setting has the alpha at 5%, but the hops I am getting are at 5.8%. This is almost a 20% increase in the bittering power. So, if you don't adjust the alpha levels in your recipes (double click on the hop after it is in your recipe and type in the actual alpha level), your IBU from BeerSmith could be wildly off.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

when i tested the hop schedule as you suggested i got only 14.9 ibu in beer smith. which doesnt seem right.
I upped them all but the 5 minute one to an ounce and got 27.5 which is the range i am looking for.


EDIT saw above post.
didnt realize that was off.
i will update

 

[rklinck]

when i tested the hop schedule as you suggested i got only 14.9 ibu in beer smith. which doesnt seem right.
I upped them all but the 5 minute one to an ounce and got 27.5 which is the range i am looking for.


EDIT saw above post.
didnt realize that was off.
i will update

Even after correcting for the alpha %, you will not get the same IBU I end up with because your recipe has a higher OG than mine (1.060 v. 1.053). Because my wort has less sugar in it, I will get better hop utilization than you. If you end up with 28.3 IBUs, your beer will be nicely balanced. My lower gravity beer is well balanced and very drinkable with 24 IBUs. Because you have more gravity, you will want more bitterness to offset it.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

now with my tweaks.

7 lbs light DME
8 oz crystal 40
4 oz chocolate
4 oz carapils
4 oz aromatic malt
4 oz crystal 80
1 oz EKG 60
1 oz fuggles 30
1 oz EKG 15 5.80
.5 oz fuggles 5 4.20

wyeast 1084 irish ale with 1000 ml starter. no stir plate but I walk by it alot.

Beer smith says this will be est 1.063 OG
29.8 IBU
16.5 SRM
6.1 estimated ABV



and also a lighter version

6 lbs light DME
6.8 oz crystal 40
3.4 oz chocolate
3.4 oz carapils
3.4 oz aromatic malt
3.4 oz crystal 80
.75 oz EKG 60
.75 oz fuggles 30
.75 oz EKG 15 5.80
.25 oz fuggles 5 4.20

1.054 OG
24.6 IBU
14.7 SRM
5.2 ABV

 

[rklinck]

I have never used aromatic malt, so I am not sure what that will add. The malt bill seems fine to me. The only question I have is: is there a reason that you are alternating the type of hops? There is no reason not to do it, but you should think about why you are doing it. I have never used fuggles, but I have heard a lot of people say they affirmatively do not like them. I think people characterize them as tasting like dirt.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I have never used aromatic malt, so I am not sure what that will add. The malt bill seems fine to me. The only question I have is: is there a reason that you are alternating the type of hops? There is no reason not to do it, but you should think about why you are doing it. I have never used fuggles, but I have heard a lot of people say they affirmatively do not like them. I think people characterize them as tasting like dirt.

No reason on the alternation. Hops and their usage is a weakness of mine.
I know that I personally like fuggles and EKG because I like alot of beer made with them. I dont know at all what the hop flavor of this will be but it sounds fun. What would you suggest on the hops.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I made a adjustment to EKG .75 oz at 60 30 and 15 for a ibu of 25.3 which seems right to me.
I dont want any dirt taste in my beer

 

[rklinck]

As a general rule, hops added with 30 minutes or more left in the boil will not leave very much flavor or aroma -- just bitterness. Flavor and aroma come from hops added during the last 30 minutes. The longer the hops are in the boil, the more they will affect flavor and the less they will affect the aroma. So for your recipe, you will get more flavor from EKG and more aroma from Fuggles. Like I mentioned, I have never used Fuggles, so I can't really comment on the plan.

What I do when I am developing a recipe is to start by making batches with only one type of hop added in the final 30 minutes (e.g., in your case I would make one batch with all fuggles and one with EKG). When both beers are ready to drink pull out a bottle of each and do a three way tasting: fuggles beer, EKG beer, and a glass with 50% from each beer. This would let you figure out whether you would prefer a single hop type or a mix of the two. If you decide you like the combination, you can add some of each hop at 15 minutes and then 5 minutes.

 

[rklinck]

I made a adjustment to EKG .75 oz at 60 30 and 15 for a ibu of 25.3 which seems right to me.
I dont want any dirt taste in my beer

Don't let me talk you out of fuggles. If you like beers made with them, you should not worry about using them in your recipes. We all have our own palates. I was just making sure you had thought it through. When I first started developing recipes, I would just buy hops that sounded like a good idea without really thinking through whether they would make sense in the recipe I was making. As a result, I have lots of hops with strong citrus/pine flavor even though I don't actually like that flavor combination.

 

[curtw]

What I do when I am developing a recipe is to start by making batches with only one type of hop added in the final 30 minutes (e.g., in your case I would make one batch with all fuggles and one with EKG). When both beers are ready to drink pull out a bottle of each and do a three way tasting: fuggles beer, EKG beer, and a glass with 50% from each beer. This would let you figure out whether you would prefer a single hop type or a mix of the two. If you decide you like the combination, you can add some of each hop at 15 minutes and then 5 minutes.

I've often wondered about this. How the heck do you do this in a practical manner? Do you brew extra small batches? Do you brew them the same day, or nearly so?

Thanks!

 

[rklinck]

I don't do small batches. I will brew batches about a week apart. Although the beers will not be at exactly the same point of conditioning/aging, you can distinguish the hop character.

 

[rklinck]

All this talk about Irish reds made me thirsty!

 

[user 98891]

I find a tiny bit of roasted barley helps bring out the red color and adds a nice flavor. By tiny I mean 4oz or less.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I find a tiny bit of roasted barley helps bring out the red color and adds a nice flavor. By tiny I mean 4oz or less.

The enhancement of red color was why i added chocolate malt.
What brings out red the most?

My fav beer smithwicks isnt really red at all, its more copper brown.

 

[user 98891]

I have not tried chocolate malt in place of roasted barley. I find the roasted barely gives a deep red color when mixed with a bit of crystal. My red ales are very red.

There is almost no flavor imparted by the amount of roasted barley that turns the beer red. Apparently unlike malts, roasted barley will impact the foam color (I dont' notice this in my reds) and is more acidic which helps if you have soft water (which I do).

In any case, I'm not trying to convince you to use it over chocolate. Just giving some insight on how I get my red color.

My red is typically

9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter
8.0 oz Crystal 60
4.0 oz Crystal 80
4.0 oz Roasted Barley

 

[rklinck]

I will second DonMagee's comment. Like I said in an earlier post, my Irish Red includes 4 ounces of roasted barley (300L). The picture quality is not great and the beer has not fully clarified, but the picture I posted is of my red. You can see that I got a deep copper color. The roasted barley does not add much flavor beyond a bit of bite. Chocolate malt may add more flavor notes than roasted barley. Ultimately, you will have to try lots of variations to land on the grain bill that you like the most.

EDIT -- I should have mentioned that the roasted barley I used is much lighter than a lot of roasted barley. Most roasted barley is in the 500L-600L range. Briess makes an organic roasted barley that is 300L. If you go for the darker roast, you can reduce the amount of roasted barley used to get the color you want.