Recurrent contamination, can't get rid of it :(

[Bellybuster]

how old is your starsan? It does have a shelf life

 

[The_Bishop]

When you mash, are you doing a mash-out? If you add heat to your mash, you need to stir it as long as the heat's being applied. If you don't, the bottom of your mashing vessel will get too hot, which could contribute to tannin extraction. Also, how good is your thermometer?

Just tossing an idea or two out there. My understanding is that infections take a bit to produce off flavors.

 

[brewbama]

I'd also bleach bomb. But also you might want to consider adjusting for Ph. It made a huge difference in the taste of my beer.

 

[ncbrewer]

I actually mill my grain in the kitchen, which is where I brew and then transfer wort to the bucket 'cause that's where I chill too. QUOTE]

Bingo.

 

[Ike]

For my personal gain: I had no idea that lacto came from uncooked wheat. While I haven't been crushing at home yet, I haven't paid much attention to cleanup between the "adding the grain" stages and "post boil" stages. I will from now on, thanks to all!

 

[mario_silent]

Grain has naturally occurring lactobacillus on it. By milling in the same area you are brewing, you can be introducing lacto to your wort. The dust particles can linger in the air for a while.
Also, you didn't mention how you are handling your yeast. Many infection problems can be traced back to yeast procedures.
I'm skeptical that bleaching everything is going to help. You are already using star san. Bacteria has a hard time surviving star san.
I'd also investigate the "purified" water you are using. How is it "purified"?

Ok, next step I'm milling somewhere else to prevent anything from getting in.
Yeast is a simple dry package so not much handling there, just cut the pack open and pitch them straight to the bucket.
I just switched to star san, being my first use just yesterday. I had been going with iodophor which was poorly sealed (don't know if that also helped not to kill anything).
I'll try the bleach just in case, maybe switching spigots and see what happens, but I'm making a smaller batch this time.

The water... well I wouldn't know how it's purified. In Mexico, there are two big brands of water suppliers. The one I'm getting it from is run by Coca-cola , so I'm guessing it's good quality. Sealed, 5 gallong plastic containers.

 

[mario_silent]

No problem, we're all here to help! As far as the grain causing an infection, like I said I don't think that's super likely but if you're crushing the grain in the same room that you then transfer the wort to the bucket, there could be grain dust in the air still. Thing is, there's all sorts of stuff floating around in the air anyways even if it's not from the grain, but it'd at least be worth trying to eliminate that cause.

As far as the bleach bomb, don't be afraid of bleaching everything and then using it, as long as you give it a good rinse afterwards. It'll be fine to use (as in it won't hurt you). No guarantee it'll fix the problem, but bleach will be far cheaper than buying all new buckets, hoses, etc, so I'd sure give it a try first.

Will be switching places when I mill now to discard one more reason. I just bought some bleach, I'll try with it and just brew a small batch. I don't wanna dump more precious beer!

Any suggestions with the bleach bomb? leave everything submerged for a certain time and then rinse the hell out of it?

 

[mario_silent]

how old is your starsan? It does have a shelf life

Actually the star san I'm using from yesterday's batch on is brand new. The iodophor I had was like 2 months old.

 

[mario_silent]

I'd also bleach bomb. But also you might want to consider adjusting for Ph. It made a huge difference in the taste of my beer.

Good point too. I was going this route on my next step to improving my procedure, I guess I'll consider this now.
What's your suggestion? ph straps or a digital device?

 

[mozart4898]

Will be switching places when I mill now to discard one more reason. I just bought some bleach, I'll try with it and just brew a small batch. I don't wanna dump more precious beer!

Any suggestions with the bleach bomb? leave everything submerged for a certain time and then rinse the hell out of it?

Exactly - dump a cup or so of bleach into a bucket (7 gallons or so) and fill the rest with water (doesn't need to be hot water, lukewarm is fine) and leave it sit for an hour or so. You should smell bleach pretty strong but if the water is "slippery" like straight bleach you've got more than you really need. Take everything apart as much as you can - take the spigots out of buckets, submerge everything you can fit in there, hoses, airlocks, lids (soak lids in a sink full of the bleach water after you've emptied it out of buckets to make it easier). When you're done with soaking, siphon the bleach water through your hoses/racking cane or whatever all you've got. It may sound crazy but try to think your way through every piece of equipment and how you can get every bit of everything in contact with that bleach water for a while.

FYI, it's usually said that you shouldn't ever bleach stainless steel because it'll pit it or what not. I regularly hit my kegs with a mild bleach solution (a couple ounces for 5 gallons of water) for a brief time and then dump it and rinse them well. Just don't leave stainless in contact with bleach (especially full strength) for a long time, and you should be fine.

When I rinse, I try to rinse with as hot of water as I can get from the tap. After rinsing for a couple minutes it's usually almost hot enough to burn me and yet I keep going as much as I can. When you're done rinsing you shouldn't smell any bleach residue any more - you should smell "clean" equipment.

(FYI this is honestly about how I sanitize every time I brew. Never had an infection. It may be overkill but to be honest, the last thing I want is for some bug to take hold in my couple hundred dollars of brewing equipment and end up needing to replace it all.)

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

+1 on the suggestion to mill your grain in an area separate from where you brew. Dust from milled grain can carry beer spoiling organisms into your wort very easily. It could very well be the source of your issue.

 

[ong]

One thing that really stands out to me is pitching yeast at 76 degrees. It's just too warm, in my opinion. Since you have temperature control, I'd recommend getting the wort into your sanitized fermenter, sealing it up, and bringing the temp down to mid 60s before pitching.

I am no fan of US-05 in any conditions, but it can sure junk up a beer when pitched warm (FWIW, I get orange/musty flavored from US-05). I'd try a batch with WLP090 if that's available in your area.

 

[mario_silent]

Exactly - dump a cup or so of bleach into a bucket (7 gallons or so) and fill the rest with water (doesn't need to be hot water, lukewarm is fine) and leave it sit for an hour or so. You should smell bleach pretty strong but if the water is "slippery" like straight bleach you've got more than you really need. Take everything apart as much as you can - take the spigots out of buckets, submerge everything you can fit in there, hoses, airlocks, lids (soak lids in a sink full of the bleach water after you've emptied it out of buckets to make it easier). When you're done with soaking, siphon the bleach water through your hoses/racking cane or whatever all you've got. It may sound crazy but try to think your way through every piece of equipment and how you can get every bit of everything in contact with that bleach water for a while.

FYI, it's usually said that you shouldn't ever bleach stainless steel because it'll pit it or what not. I regularly hit my kegs with a mild bleach solution (a couple ounces for 5 gallons of water) for a brief time and then dump it and rinse them well. Just don't leave stainless in contact with bleach (especially full strength) for a long time, and you should be fine.

When I rinse, I try to rinse with as hot of water as I can get from the tap. After rinsing for a couple minutes it's usually almost hot enough to burn me and yet I keep going as much as I can. When you're done rinsing you shouldn't smell any bleach residue any more - you should smell "clean" equipment.

(FYI this is honestly about how I sanitize every time I brew. Never had an infection. It may be overkill but to be honest, the last thing I want is for some bug to take hold in my couple hundred dollars of brewing equipment and end up needing to replace it all.)

That's a pretty solid clean I think. No wonder why you never have contaminations.
Luckily I've been using plastic bottles so no worries with stainless steel.
I'll give it a shot this weekend just as directed and see what happens.

Thank you so much for your advice! so kind of you.

 

[mario_silent]

One thing that really stands out to me is pitching yeast at 76 degrees. It's just too warm, in my opinion. Since you have temperature control, I'd recommend getting the wort into your sanitized fermenter, sealing it up, and bringing the temp down to mid 60s before pitching.

I am no fan of US-05 in any conditions, but it can sure junk up a beer when pitched warm (FWIW, I get orange/musty flavored from US-05). I'd try a batch with WLP090 if that's available in your area.

I might try that too, pitching at a lower temperature.
The thing is where I live (Mexico city) liquid yeast is pretty much inexistent and I wouldn't really trust it considering how far away it would come from. Storage and viability are a big concern for me, and the price if I can get them is pretty. So currently I'm quite limited to just dry yeast from Lallemand and Fermentis.

 

[jmpreiks]

Yeast is a simple dry package so not much handling there, just cut the pack open and pitch them straight to the bucket.

Are you rinsing both the yeast package and the scissors in sanitizer before cutting it open?

 

[mario_silent]

Are you rinsing both the yeast package and the scissors in sanitizer before cutting it open?

Only the scissors, I haven't rinsed the package :O

 

[jmpreiks]

Only the scissors, I haven't rinsed the package :O

Well I would start doing that, but I doubt that is the cause of recurring infections unless you bought all the yeast at the same time and all packages had the same bacteria.... and somehow some of the bacteria made it into the wort every single time....

 

[mario_silent]

Well I would start doing that, but I doubt that is the cause of recurring infections unless you bought all the yeast at the same time and all packages had the same bacteria.... and somehow some of the bacteria made it into the wort every single time....

I agree, that's a bit unlikely although they do come from the same order. I buy supplies for 2 months so all the packages came at the same time.
But also it's very unlikely they're all contaminated. I'm betting there's something in the buckets and/or spigots.