Recommend Me Some Circuit Breakers / eBrewery Planning

[bigdawg86]

Hey so I am in the planning stages of going from natural gas BIAB to a 3 vessel setup in my garage. My electrical panel (200A) is on the outside of the garage that I would "relocate" to and the plug would be literally less than 1 foot away from the panel as discovered the only thing between my exterior panel and the garage interior is a single sheet of drywall. Since it's such a short easy run, I am not sure on what I should plan as far as amperage goes.

Being that it's such a short run would there be any disadvantage to doing a 50A breaker over a 30A? I noticed at home depot they had a 40A and 50A but no 30A GFCI. I also wanted to run a dedicated 120V 20A gang box too (for example SSbrewtech controller requires both). Anyways If I could get some recommendations on amperage, wire size, etc.

I will be doing 5-10 gallon batches once I am up and running. Thanks.

 

[bigdawg86]

This picture shows the available slots on my panel...

 

[doug293cz]

Since you're going three vessel, you might as well put in a 50A breaker, as that would allow you to heat a BK and HLT at the same time. Just need to use 6AWG wire up to the point where you have a lower amp breaker/fuse to protect smaller downstream wires.

Never heard of a service panel being outside. I would expect code to require a weather proof enclosure, and that would likely negate any cost savings from putting the panel outside. Any code wonks want to elaborate?

Brew on

 

[bigdawg86]

Yep it's all outside. The panel is not sealed either, but never had a problem I dunno. The house is new construction only 5 years old so I can't imagine there being any code issues.

 

[processhead]

Never heard of a service panel being outside. I would expect code to require a weather proof enclosure, and that would likely negate any cost savings from putting the panel outside. Any code wonks want to elaborate?

Brew on

Not a code wonk, but on another forum where I am a member, I am following this very topic which is currently under discussion. https://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=357125&sid=53da9240d0865e5d286ffeb84c4db27b

Apparently in some local jurisdictions, the service panel is required to be located outdoors. One of the explanations I read was that an outdoor panel makes it easier for fire fighters to kill power in the event of a fire. In other locales, the fire fighters just pull the meter to D/C the power.

When I once lived in the deep South, our home had an outdoor breaker panel.
Where we currently live, I never see an outdoor breaker panel.

 

[bigdawg86]

Another question I have is what are the rules and regs regarding adding a subpanel to the garage? Again it would literally be a 12 inch run from the main box to the garage... I want to run a 50a 220v and a 20a 110v but given my main box configuration I don't know if would be better to run each circuit into the garage or add a say 70A subpanel

 

[processhead]

You don't need a sub panel in your garage, IMO.

From the picture, it appears your existing panel has additional space for new breakers, I would just add the two new circuits, one for a 220 volt circuit and one for the 120 volt circuit. You would need to use GFCI breakers in your panel for both circuits since they are going in a garage and are connected to brewing equipment, or alternately, you could add the GFCI protective devices in your garage.
I personally prefer the first option for 220 volt circuits, but a simple GFCI recept. in the garage is simpler for 120 circuits.

You are fortunate your garage is so close to your breaker panel. That will simplify the project.

Its best to run any expansion plans past a licensed electrician.

 

[bigdawg86]

Essentially I don't know if I will end up with a 30a or 50a brew panel, so I figured why not just run for a 50a and it will handle 30a need be, but I am not an electician so not sure on the rules for matching outlets, wires, and breakers. I know you NEVER run more than the wires / breaker / plug are designed for, but don't know on the rules of running less.

Part of me wants to do a 100A subpanel because I am interested in the SSbrewtech 3V RIMS setup which would require two 240v 30A and one 110v 20A. I wouldn't set it up that way right off the bat, but if I did end up going that direction then I can easily do that with the subpanel...whereas my main box doesn't have the room for more than one 240v

 

[FunkedOut]

Sounds like the smartest plan is a 100A subpanel.
One breaker outside and the subpanel you can grow into.
Run the wires to the subpanel big enough to handle the 100A now.

Check and see if the rest of your panel is consuming more than 100A itself. If your home is consuming more than 100A now, the wire feeding that 200A panel will not be able to handle your home and the brewery at the same time.

Check that box that has the meter. Perhaps that cover on the lower right has a spot for your 100A breaker that is fed upstream of the 200A panel.

 

[processhead]

FunkedOut's suggestion is a workable option too and gives you some flexibility to expand later.
You need to ask yourself what future electrical requirements do you foresee yourself needing in this home.
Room additions? Work shop toys? Hot tub?
Going the subpanel route adds some cost and complexity to the project and may push the project into something you would want to hire out, depending on your skills.

 

[bigdawg86]

I decided to go the subpanel route... but I am only doing 80A for a few reasons. My local hardware store sells up to 3 gauge wire by the foot which is convenient and keeps the cost down. It will give me the option of doing 30A x 2 or a 50A and a 30A circuit. The subpanel I bought was only 20 bucks. I have flexibility in the future without committing to any one configuration. Until I figure out what I am going to be brewing with I will wire in the subpanel and then finish final breaker installation based on whatever I end up with.

 

[FunkedOut]

When thinking ahead and planning on breakers, remember that the 80A breaker you install outside is just there to protect the wire it feeds.
All of the breakers downstream of it do not have to add up to 80A or less.
All of the breakers downstream just have to be small enough to protect the wires they are feeding.
You can have a pair of 30A breakers feeding your brewery and 4 20A breakers feeding a woodworking shop as long as they do not run at the same time. If they did, worst case is the 80A should trip to keep the 3ga wire from getting too hot for its jacket.

 

[bigdawg86]

So here it is so far. 100 amp sub-panel is mounted and just started wiring. I need a ground lug for the box and to still tie it into the house, but will wait until the wife is gone since I have to cut the power to the house. You can see where the wires are hanging out... that goes directly to the other side is my main service panel where I will put the 100 amp breaker . I went with 2-gauge stranded copper wire for hot / neutral, and 4 gauge for ground because that's the only size home depot had, so it's one gauge bigger than needed but that's not a bad thing.

I figured even if I move it will be something people with electric vehicles, welders, etc would appreciate in the garage. If this becomes an issue because I didn't pull a permit, I'll just take it down and keep the components for the next house.

 

[bigdawg86]

All done! I just need one outlet cover and it's finished. The panel is equipped with a 50 amp 240v gfci, 30 amp gcfi 240v, and dedicated 20 amp 120v circuit on a gfci plug. House didn't burn down and I think it's a decent job! The black conduit was painted as Home Depot didn't have any flexible pipe options, so I heated it up and made my own, but the torch discolored things a little so it got painted.