Recirculation of first runnings back into the mash during sparging, yes or no?

[bubbie1974]

Hello fellow brewers. I have a question on mashing technique. I use a 2 vessel system to brew, HLT/BK and a MT. I currently collect my first runnings into a bucket and then sparge from my HLT/BK into my MT and collect second runnings back into the HLT/BK. Then dump the bucket of first runnings into the HLT/BK and start a boil. I do this because I worry that if I recirculate my high gravity first runnings back through the grains during sparging I could lose some sugars in the dead space or in the grains. Do you believe I will lose the gravity points by recirculating the mixture of first and second runnings prior to sparge or is what I have described overkill? If I need to explain more thoroughly my question please ask and I will attempt to better explain. Thanks in advance, the greedy brewer.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Do you vorlauf? Either way, I think the difference in efficiency would be negligible. Some experiments have shown that the grains themselves are not smoking up the fermentable sugars but more likely the water. Unless you have a unreasonable amount of dead space, the difference will be negligible.

 

[RM-MN]

Why would you want to dump your wort with a high sugar content back into the mash that has a lower sugar content? You won't extract any more sugars with that and as you mentioned you may lose some. The normal way is to mash, drain, sparge, drain, boil. You might get a bit more if you divide your sparge water into two sparges and you can use cold water for that as you have only one HLT/boil kettle or you could collect first runnings and both sparges into the bucket and then return them to the boil kettle.

 

[kh54s10]

IMO you are leaving goodness in the mash tun with that practice. When you do a normal sparge (with water) you are rinsing sugars out of the grain. What is left in the wet grain is mostly just water. When you recycle the wort and are finished you are leaving sugars behind. What is now in the wet grain is your wort!

 

[Whatsgoodmiley]

I thought the entire point of recirculating the mash was that the grain bed acts as a filter as it compacts. According to these sources, it filters out proteins and other haze inducers:
http://learn.kegerator.com/recirculating-mash/
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/getting-the-wort-out-lautering/aspects-of-lautering
Or is this practice just one of those outdated methods?

Edit: corrected typo

 

[Homercidal]

Vorlauf your first runnings by draining a quart or two from the mash tun. Return this wort back to the top of the grain bed while the rest of the first runnings are draining into the bucket. The initial wort, full of proteins and grains and whatnot, will be filtered through the grain bed, which is now acting as a filter. When all of your first runnings are drained away, add sparge water and mix it up good to rinse the residual sugars well.

Repeat the vorlauf process for the sparge water; draining some into a small container, then adding back as the rest of it drains out.

In this way you can use the grain bed as a filter and not leave first runnings wort in the grain. Make sure your sparge pH is low enough, or temperature is low enough, to prevent tannins.

Alternatively, you can simply add the sparge water to the mash tun BEFORE you vorlauf first runnings. This will save some time and effort, and it will dilute your wort for easier flowing, and can act as a mash out if you wish. But by doing so you increase the amount of sugar remaining in the grain by a small amount. Only you can decide if the time and effort savings is worth the efficiency loss and cost of extra grain to make up for it. Many people basically do this when doing a Full Volume BIAB mash.

And of course you need to have a mash tun big enough to hold the mash AND sparge water at the same time...

 

[Redlantern]

A Fly-Sparger here -

Do not know if it was coincidence or not, but on my last three batches, I switched my process to where after Vorlaufing, I would drain enough wort form the mash tun to allow the grain bed to settle - probably a little over a gallon or so. The wort was not visible over the top of the grain bed after draining. I would then close the valve and introduce the sparge water to get 1.5" to 2" above the grain bed then start a slow sparge. Efficiency went up considerably, like from 68% to 78%. It could have been fresher or better crushed grain or my pH was better than previously - who knows, but that was the only variable I have changed.

I will keep doing it this way as it makes sense to my tiny mind that if you want to rinse something off or out, the rinse should be cleaner than what you are rinsing.

 

[kh54s10]

I thought the entire point of recirculating the mash was that the grain bed acts as a filter as it compacts. According to these sources, it filters out proteins and other haze inducers:
http://learn.kegerator.com/recirculating-mash/
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/getting-the-wort-out-lautering/aspects-of-lautering
Or is this practice just one of those outdated methods?

Edit: corrected typo

Not outdated. But this is recirculation during the mash. Then you vorlauf and sparge with water, not the wort.

 

[Civicrice17]

In response to redlantern:
I can vouch for that method. I switched from batch sparging to doing almost exactly what you're doing except only draining enough of the wort until it is just level with the grain bed before introducing the sparge water to about an inch above the bed.
This resulted in an efficiency increase from 61/62 to 80-82. My first batch with this method came out to a much higher than expected OG but now I know I don't have to buy so much grain.