Recirculating with rice hulls help

[jodell]

Can someone please help me with how to use rice hulls correctly?

I thought it would be fairly simple but the both times I've tried they have clogged my herms coil has been incredibly frustrating.

What I did last night was get strike water to 155, put it into my mash tun, added rice hulls and started recirculating. I waited to add grains to make sure everything went okay, and luckily I did because everything was a mess.

I know I am doing this wrong somehow. Do I need to add them at the same time? After I mash in?

By the way it was a small handful of them

 

[mongoose33]

Why are you using rice hulls? What's the recipe? I only use them if I'm brewing something that includes malt that has no hulls, like wheat or rye.

 

[MoonBrewer]

I add a couple of big handfulls with the grain at mash in. Never had any problems with clogging or stuck sparges in 20+ batches.

 

[zgja2]

you want to stir the grain in with the rice hulls.

Was your false bottom in place?

When first starting to recirculate make sure to throttle back the flow considerably until the grain bed is set. Then you can increase but not to full flow. I would say 50%or less. I run mine closer to 30%

 

[kh54s10]

I don't know about the re-circulation, but they are usually added in with the grains to act as grain hulls when using malts that don't have them, like wheat and rye. They allow the wort to flow through the grain bed where otherwise it would be too thick, creating a stuck sparge.

 

[dyqik]

you want to stir the grain in with the rice hulls.

Was your false bottom in place?

When first starting to recirculate make sure to throttle back the flow considerably until the grain bed is set. Then you can increase but not to full flow. I would say 50%or less. I run mine closer to 30%

Yeah, this. The only way the rice hulls can get into the HERMS coil is if your false bottom isn't in place, sealed, or if it's not connected to the outlet if you use a dip tube. Rice hulls are as big as grain husks, and are used when the grist doesn't have enough husks in it.

 

[mongoose33]

I don't know about the re-circulation, but they are usually added in with the grains to act as grain hulls when using malts that don't have them, like wheat and rye. They allow the wort to flow through the grain bed where otherwise it would be too thick, creating a stuck sparge.

I actually include them in the malt when I'm crushing it so it mixes in to the grist more thoroughly.

 

[dyqik]

I actually include them in the malt when I'm crushing it so it mixes in to the grist more thoroughly.

I usually put them in the tun just before adding the grist and then underletting to mash in, so that there should be somewhat more of them at the bottom of the mash where they are needed most. I don't know if that actually works helps though.

 

[kh54s10]

I actually include them in the malt when I'm crushing it so it mixes in to the grist more thoroughly.

I wouldn't put then through the mill. I wouldn't want to break them into smaller pieces, that defeats the purpose of using them.

I just put them in the bucket of already milled grain. I feel they get fully mixed when stirring the grain in the strike water.

 

[jodell]

Why are you using rice hulls? What's the recipe? I only use them if I'm brewing something that includes malt that has no hulls, like wheat or rye.

This particular one was a scotch ale, however I do brew quite a few hefe's and rye's, I was hoping this would just overall improve flow

you want to stir the grain in with the rice hulls.

Was your false bottom in place?

When first starting to recirculate make sure to throttle back the flow considerably until the grain bed is set. Then you can increase but not to full flow. I would say 50%or less. I run mine closer to 30%

I hadn't added the mash yet but I was about %50. False bottom was in place

 

[jodell]

I usually put them in the tun just before adding the grist and then underletting to mash in, so that there should be somewhat more of them at the bottom of the mash where they are needed most. I don't know if that actually works helps though.

False bottom was definitely in place. It was a bottom from brewhardware so it's good quality too

 

[jodell]

Honestly it sounds like I need to try to mix them in with the grains. Yesterday my flow stopped completely, so I dumped all my water into buckets, tried cleaning out what I could, and tried again, well without adding more I guess a few still got trough the false bottom and it clogged again to a slow trickle...

Maybe I should just give up with rice hulls...my normal recirculating wasn't ever bad, just thought these could make it better.

 

[mongoose33]

I wouldn't put then through the mill. I wouldn't want to break them into smaller pieces, that defeats the purpose of using them.

I just put them in the bucket of already milled grain. I feel they get fully mixed when stirring the grain in the strike water.

It really doesn't defeat the purpose of using them, otherwise they wouldn't ever work for me. They break into no smaller pieces than the normal malt hulls break into, in fact, even less so as they often just pass through the mill untouched.

 

[kh54s10]

It really doesn't defeat the purpose of using them, otherwise they wouldn't ever work for me. They break into no smaller pieces than the normal malt hulls break into, in fact, even less so as they often just pass through the mill untouched.

It probably works just fine. But I use a corona mill. I think mine would shred the rice hulls to flour. On a roller mill it probably doesn't do anything. But if I was worried about a stuck sparge I wouldn't risk it.

If the rice hulls are getting through the OPs system any further break down would only make the problem worse.

 

[day_trippr]

If you do your own milling consider conditioning the malt right before milling. It really does improve lautering by leaving the husks virtually intact - the first time I did it I thought grains were getting through uncrushed.

Plus it offers the opportunity to tighten the mill gap for your base malt, which if you go tight enough (~.030") will be sufficient for wheat as well without having to re-gap.

Since I started conditioning I haven't used any rice hulls, even for high-adjunct brews (eg: CO3C cream ale)...

Cheers!

 

[Dcpcooks]

I see a few things that might be giving you fits.

Rice hulls are added to the grain to help replace husks that are missing because your using wheat or rye, those adjusts don't have hulls. The concept isn't to recirculate faster per se just to let you recirculate wort in a thin (less filter material) bed that will be a bit gummy.

You add them at the same time you dough in. Then you need to let everything settle. You want everything to hydrate and you want the bed to settle a bit. I usually let it settle for 10-20 min with pumps off . So by adding them before the grain and recirculating right away you basically sucked them into your coil.

Once you've doughed in you want to slowly open your valve to allow a slow gentle recirculation. The benefit of a herms coil is temp control on the mash bed and the ability to ramp temps. Clear wort is a byproduct of recirculation but not the end goal.

I've had rice hulls get past the false bottom and clog the herms coil at the compression fittings. It happened to me at big brew years ago. I was using a new Blichmann mash tun with their false bottom. I overslept and wanted to catch up to the rest of the crew at the brew club. We were making a hefe and I was intent on doing a step mash with 40% wheat and I was pushing the limits of my system and my experience. So I was pushing my pump trying to ramp temps faster and the whole thing just slowed down to a trickle. I shut it down stirred the mash added more rice hulls and tried again. No luck I had to slowly ramp my temps by infusion and I was cursing the new false bottom. As I was breaking everything apart for cleaning I discovered the rice hulls clogging up the entrance to the coil. It wasn't the false bottom it was my design and my desire to push it. I'd suspect you have a 3/8" coil or you may have a smaller opening in the compression fitting than the actual coil interior diameter. This was a choke point in my first herms set up. I replaced the compression fittings and coil in a rebuild a few months later. The second build was a 1/2" coil and high flow 1/2" compression fittings. I'm just speculating on the size of your fittings and coil but it's worth a look.

I see no reason to run rice hulls through a mill. Conditioning grain will improve your husk retention and that can allow you to crush a bit finer and improve your efficiency a bit. I did that for a bit before I built a mill station. Once I went to a three roller mill with a motor my crush improved so much that I've not needed to condition or use rice hulls at all. One of my last brews was 50% unmalted wheat in a turbid mash for a lambic. Unmalted wheat is very soft and gummy as it still contains moisture. I got 90%+ efficiency on that batch and every batch since. I've actually had to recalibrate my mash and brew house efficiency since going to the new mill. I added about 10 points to both number solely from improved crush.

So you can slow your flow. (Free)
Add the hulls when you dough in not before. (Small cost for the hulls)
Let your bed settle before you recirculate (free)
Condition your grain to retain more whole husks ( small cost for a spray bottle)
Check your compression fittings diameter and coil diameter ( could be $40 or $200)
Buy a new mill ($$$$)

Hope this gives you a few ideas to troubleshoot your problem.

Cheers

 

[mongoose33]

It probably works just fine. But I use a corona mill. I think mine would shred the rice hulls to flour. On a roller mill it probably doesn't do anything. But if I was worried about a stuck sparge I wouldn't risk it.

If the rice hulls are getting through the OPs system any further break down would only make the problem worse.

What you could also do if using a mill like this--mine is a 2 roller, btw--is add the rice hulls after crushing the malt. I just throw them in mine to mix them up, but no reason they couldn't be added after milling.

 

[kh54s10]

What you could also do if using a mill like this--mine is a 2 roller, btw--is add the rice hulls after crushing the malt. I just throw them in mine to mix them up, but no reason they couldn't be added after milling.

That IS what I do. I mill the grain, toss a few hand fulls of rice hulls in the bucket then go on with the brewing.

 

[jodell]

I see a few things that might be giving you fits.

Rice hulls are added to the grain to help replace husks that are missing because your using wheat or rye, those adjusts don't have hulls. The concept isn't to recirculate faster per se just to let you recirculate wort in a thin (less filter material) bed that will be a bit gummy.

You add them at the same time you dough in. Then you need to let everything settle. You want everything to hydrate and you want the bed to settle a bit. I usually let it settle for 10-20 min with pumps off . So by adding them before the grain and recirculating right away you basically sucked them into your coil.

Once you've doughed in you want to slowly open your valve to allow a slow gentle recirculation. The benefit of a herms coil is temp control on the mash bed and the ability to ramp temps. Clear wort is a byproduct of recirculation but not the end goal.

I've had rice hulls get past the false bottom and clog the herms coil at the compression fittings. It happened to me at big brew years ago. I was using a new Blichmann mash tun with their false bottom. I overslept and wanted to catch up to the rest of the crew at the brew club. We were making a hefe and I was intent on doing a step mash with 40% wheat and I was pushing the limits of my system and my experience. So I was pushing my pump trying to ramp temps faster and the whole thing just slowed down to a trickle. I shut it down stirred the mash added more rice hulls and tried again. No luck I had to slowly ramp my temps by infusion and I was cursing the new false bottom. As I was breaking everything apart for cleaning I discovered the rice hulls clogging up the entrance to the coil. It wasn't the false bottom it was my design and my desire to push it. I'd suspect you have a 3/8" coil or you may have a smaller opening in the compression fitting than the actual coil interior diameter. This was a choke point in my first herms set up. I replaced the compression fittings and coil in a rebuild a few months later. The second build was a 1/2" coil and high flow 1/2" compression fittings. I'm just speculating on the size of your fittings and coil but it's worth a look.

I see no reason to run rice hulls through a mill. Conditioning grain will improve your husk retention and that can allow you to crush a bit finer and improve your efficiency a bit. I did that for a bit before I built a mill station. Once I went to a three roller mill with a motor my crush improved so much that I've not needed to condition or use rice hulls at all. One of my last brews was 50% unmalted wheat in a turbid mash for a lambic. Unmalted wheat is very soft and gummy as it still contains moisture. I got 90%+ efficiency on that batch and every batch since. I've actually had to recalibrate my mash and brew house efficiency since going to the new mill. I added about 10 points to both number solely from improved crush.

So you can slow your flow. (Free)
Add the hulls when you dough in not before. (Small cost for the hulls)
Let your bed settle before you recirculate (free)
Condition your grain to retain more whole husks ( small cost for a spray bottle)
Check your compression fittings diameter and coil diameter ( could be $40 or $200)
Buy a new mill ($$$$)

Hope this gives you a few ideas to troubleshoot your problem.

Cheers

My coil diameter is 1/2" I'D, and my diptube is 5/8".

However reading this I did add the rice hulls at full pump speed. And before there were any grains.

I am trying this again on Wednesday and will make some adjustment on that

 

[jodell]

Alright I am going to try this again today and report back how it goes. Adding rice hulls same time as mashing in and slowing down my recirculating speed

 

[shanecb]

Should work out fine... I think the biggest issue was not adding them with the other grains, as has been discussed. The rice hulls would be mixed throughout the grain instead of forming a mass together.

 

[jodell]

No problem today. Did a wee heavy with of 1.091, I am making a the pale ale next