Recipe in % instead of Pounds (also math for my first all-grain brew)?

[JLeather]

So I'm going to be making the jump to all-grain sooner than expected because my parents were about to throw away an old 10 gallon Igloo round cooler. I've ordered a false bottom kit and thermometer, and the first recipe I want to do is a NEIPA. It's going to be a few weeks before I have all my stuff rounded up, but I want to plan ahead. The recipe I found that I want to try lists the grain bill in % rather than pounds (80% pilsner, 10% flaked oats, 10% flaked wheat). I assume this is so you can scale it to your intended ABV, or is there some other consideration? Possibly so you can scale to the efficiency of your equipment? The original recipe was at 8.4% ABV, but I would rather aim for closer to 7.2% ABV. How would I go about calculating the grain bill for my 5 gallon batch? I intend to aim for the right amount of pre-boil wort straight from the mash tun, not spend all day boiling it down for max efficiency (at least for now). Using (mostly) the Brewers Friend recipe calcualtor I came up with the following (assuming a 70% efficiency, aim low for my first time...):

Pre-Boil Wort Needed - 7 gallons @ 1.067 OG (assuming a 60 minute boil down to 6 gallons of 1.076 OG, and then some loss in the kettle)
Grain Bill - 15 lbs overall (12 lbs of Pilsner and 1.5 lbs of each of the flaked grains)
4.75 gallons of strike water at 166°F, 4.75 gallons of sparge water (temperature TBD, possibly cold for now since I don't have another kettle, or possibly a batch sparge)

Am I on the right track with how to interpret this recipe, and also my assumptions on my mash? Obviously if my efficiency is better than 70% I'll end up at a higher ABV, but I'd rather accidentally have an 8% beer than accidentally have a 5.5%

 

[Carolina_Matt]

That's sort of how I do it (although I do full volume BIAB, so there are fewer inputs). I essentially start with the overall LBs like you have, then I see what OG they spit out. If it's higher than I want, then I adjust each of the grains down (while leaving the same %). It's trial and error.

It would be outstanding if there was a way to just put in your %, then tell BrewersFriend what OG you want, and let it tell you the proper amount of each grain. But I don't think they have a feature that lets you scale it that way.

 

[myndflyte]

It would be outstanding if there was a way to just put in your %, then tell BrewersFriend what OG you want, and let it tell you the proper amount of each grain. But I don't think they have a feature that lets you scale it that way.

You may want to check out Brewfather (no affiliation). I used to use Brewer's Friend but switched to Brewfather. There you can set initial grain weight and then adjust the percentages, then scale up or down by setting the target OG.

 

[VikeMan]

It would be outstanding if there was a way to just put in your %, then tell BrewersFriend what OG you want, and let it tell you the proper amount of each grain. But I don't think they have a feature that lets you scale it that way.

BrewCipher (which is free) does this.

 

[kevin58]

NEIPA can be a challenge ever for craft brewers. If you are just starting I would do a pale ale or something less complex at least until you learn and dial in your system.

As for using grain percentages I use Beersmith. I simply add the grain bill into the recipe creator then use the adjust grain percentage tool to get them in the right proportion. Then to get them to the correct amount I use the gravity adjustment tool.

 

[Yooper]

Brewer's friend does this- that's how I build all my recipes.

I actually "think" in percentages, and it works so well. I can make an 11 gallon batch, or a 2 gallon batch, and it's the same beer since it's all percentages. I think most brewers do that, and when we talk about a recipe, we'll say "add 3% vienna malt", etc.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

Brewer's friend does this- that's how I build all my recipes.

Wow, I've never noticed the 'Goal' part. Has that always been there?

 

[Yooper]

Wow, I've never noticed the 'Goal' part. Has that always been there?

Not "always"- but for a pretty long time now. I've been using it that way for a couple of years.

 

[JLeather]

NEIPA can be a challenge ever for craft brewers. If you are just starting I would do a pale ale or something less complex at least until you learn and dial in your system.

NEIPA is hard because of all the dry hops and oxidation, right? Can I use a NEIPA-style grain bill (a little less flaked grains for clarity-sake) and brew an APA instead? All late boil hop additions, maybe a hop stand but no dry hopping, for beer with NEIPA mouthfeel and flavor but without the oxidation problems in a bucket fermenter and bottle setup?

 

[VikeMan]

Can I use a NEIPA-style grain bill (a little less flaked grains for clarity-sake) and brew an APA instead?

Definitely.

All late boil hop additions, maybe a hop stand but no dry hopping, for beer with NEIPA mouthfeel and flavor but without the oxidation problems in a bucket fermenter and bottle setup?

Well, if you reduce flaked grains, you'll change the mouthfeel, and if you don't dry hop, you won't get the (IMO) "NEIPA flavor," but you could still make a tasty APA.

 

[JLeather]

Ok, I think for my first grain batch I'm going for a pale ale instead of the NEIPA to get my bearings. I found a recipe in an old thread from member dobe12 that sounds in line with what I like in a summer beer. Should be 1.060 OG and around 6% ABV assuming fairly poor efficiency on my part:

5 lb Maris Otter
3 lb Vienna Malt
2 lb Munich 6L
1 lb Briess Caramel Malt 40L
1 lb Cane Sugar (Late Boil)

I'm plan to go with a batch sparge and equal first/second runnings. Aiming for 5.5 gallons in the fermenter and a 60 minute boil I want 7.5 gallons of pre-boil wort according to Brewer's Friend. Since the grain will absorb about 1 gallon, and I intend to mash in with 1.5 qt/lb I would mash in with 4.5 gallons at 152°F for an hour, mash-out .25 gallons of boiling water at the end, for a first run of 3.75 gallons. After that a batch sparge of 3.75 gallons at 168°F for 15(?) minutes for a total of 7.5 gallons. That sound about right?

The rest of the recipe is single-hop citra:

Citra 0.5 oz 60 min Boil
Citra 0.5 oz 15 min Boil
Citra 0.5 oz 10 min Boil
Citra 0.5 oz 5 min Boil
Citra 1.0 oz 1 min Boil
Citra 1.0 oz 7 days Dry Hop

And probably either Wyeast 1056 or US-05 because I have those in the fridge.

 

[VikeMan]

1 lb Cane Sugar (Late Boil)

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but sugar in in APA isn't very common. It will will make a pretty dry beer compared to an all malt version of a similar ABV. But maybe that's intentional? You did mention wanting a "summer beer."

I'm plan to go with a batch sparge and equal first/second runnings. Aiming for 5.5 gallons in the fermenter and a 60 minute boil I want 7.5 gallons of pre-boil wort according to Brewer's Friend. Since the grain will absorb about 1 gallon, and I intend to mash in with 1.5 qt/lb I would mash in with 4.5 gallons at 152°F for an hour, mash-out .25 gallons of boiling water at the end, for a first run of 3.75 gallons. After that a batch sparge of 3.75 gallons at 168°F for 15(?) minutes for a total of 7.5 gallons. That sound about right?

Some math stuff...

Mash thickness: 1.5 qt/lb for 11 pounds of grain would be 4.135 gallons, not 4.5 gallons.

Grain absorption loss: With 11 lbs of grain, I'd predict you're looking at closer to 1.3 gallons of wort absorption by the grain, but almost certainly higher than the 1 gallon you mention. Also, even if your grain absorption is only 1 gallon, your volume numbers above are only assuming 0.75 gallons absorption (4.5 - 3.75).

Dead Space: You originally mentioned a cooler with a false bottom. You probably have a dead space loss for that to factor in, unless there will be no wort left behind under the false bottom.

 

[Semco]

There’s a lot of ways you can do this but here’s how I do it (when I’m doing it back of the napkin and not with software). You have a target gravity, in your case 1.067, so your “points” are 67 for 7 gal. Now you estimated 70% efficiency so 67 / 0.7 = 95.7 lets say 96 points. Now you have 7 gal so 7 x 96 = 672 points needed total.

Your grain bill in points is then :
Pils .8 x 672 = 537.6 pts. (PPG 36-38)
Flaked oat .1x672 = 67.2 pts (PPG 32)
Flaked wheat .1x672 = 67.2 pts. (PPG 36)

Now on each variety of grain there’s a “PPG” points per pound per gallon assuming 100% conversion. We’ve adjusted that to 70% conversion already with the first calculation of how many points we need. So I put estimates above for the PPG above. Divide the total points by PPG to find out how many pounds you need.
So
537.6 / 37 = 14.5 lbs Pils
67.2/32 = 2.1 lbs flaked oat
67.2 / 36 = 1.86 flaked wheat

Thats by points... back of the napkin...

 

[JLeather]

Well, here goes nothing. I'm going to convert my cooler this weekend and go for my first all-grain brew. Plenty of time on Monday to get it done with the holiday. Atlantic Brew Supply came through with quick shipping in spite of the holiday and the pandemic. I decided for my first go-round to sub another pound of MO instead of the pound of sugar the recipe called for. I've already got a Brut IPA in the fermenter and that's about as dry as they get . With that in mind here's the plan:

6 lb Maris Otter 2.6L
3 lb Vienna Malt 3.5L
2 lb Munich 6L
1 lb Briess Caramel Malt 40L

Mash thickness: 1.5 qt/lb for 11 pounds of grain would be 4.135 gallons, not 4.5 gallons.

Grain absorption loss: With 11 lbs of grain, I'd predict you're looking at closer to 1.3 gallons of wort absorption by the grain, but almost certainly higher than the 1 gallon you mention. Also, even if your grain absorption is only 1 gallon, your volume numbers above are only assuming 0.75 gallons absorption (4.5 - 3.75).

Dead Space: You originally mentioned a cooler with a false bottom. You probably have a dead space loss for that to factor in, unless there will be no wort left behind under the false bottom.

I had my recipe calculator messed up. 6.5 gallons post-boil was too much. It was doing some sort of calculation for partial-mash. I really need 7 gallons of pre-boil wort, 5.5 gallons post-boil, assuming it all goes into the fermenter. At 1.5 qt/lb = 4.5 gallons mash in @152°F. Assuming 1.5(?) gallons of absorption I would need to add .5 gallons mash-out to get a first run of 3.5 gallons which is half of my (corrected) 7 gallon goal. Once I get my mash tun set up I'll see what amount of liquid will be lost in the false bottom setup (probably a .25-.5 gallons). I assume I would add that to the mash-out volume, or the initial sparge? Either way batch sparge of another 3.5 gallons @168°F for a total run of 6.5 gallons, and a post-boil 5.5 gallons.

Same hop schedule as above, and fingers crossed.

I bought an immersion heater and I have a second 5 gallon cooler I'm putting a ball-valve in for the sparge so I can heat the sparge up on a stand with the immersion while I heat the mash-in with my kettle.

 

[VikeMan]

Assuming 1.5(?) gallons of absorption I would need to add .5 gallons mash-out to get a first run of 3.5 gallons which is half of my (corrected) 7 gallon goal.

If you're not sure about grain absorption, a reasonable default rule of thumb is 0.12 gallons per pound.

Once I get my mash tun set up I'll see what amount of liquid will be lost in the false bottom setup (probably a .25-.5 gallons). I assume I would add that to the mash-out volume, or the initial sparge?

I'd probably add it to the strike water, but either way should work fine.

Either way batch sparge of another 3.5 gallons @168°F for a total run of 6.5 gallons, and a post-boil 5.5 gallons.

168F is a pretty common mash out temperature. If batch sparging, the water needs to be hotter than 168F for the grains/wort to reach 168F. Hopefully your recipe calculator can give you that temperature.

Good Luck!

 

[JLeather]

Well, the first shot at all-grain was pretty successful this weekend. I must have underestimated my boil-off because I had 6.5 gallons when I started, but by the time I was finished I had under 5 gallons in the fermenter (4.75 gallons or so). The mash tun holds a gallon of wasted wort so I mashed with 4.5 gallons, mashed-out with 1/2 a gallon, and then sparged with 4.5 gallons. Everything smelled and tasted good. Because I slightly undershot my volume I also slightly overshot my OG at 1.061 but that's ok. I pitched a 1056 starter and called it a day.

I've come to the conclusion I need a pump because lifting 5 gallons of boiling water to nearly head height is not the best.

 

[JLeather]

10 days in the primary and time for a reading. 1.011, which is about 80% attenuation and somewhere around 6.4% ABV. I guess I must have hit my mash temps fairly well. Great taste, but pretty cloudy (I completely forgot my whirlfloc tablet). Time for 5 days of citra dry-hop and then bottle this weekend and brew another batch on Father's Day!