Recipe and technique request, first time BIAB in propane fired keggle

[browntown52]

This might be overly relying on help without enough education, but I want to do my first BIAB as I'd like to graduate from extract kits. If this is too much of an ask, I'd appreciate links and guidance to figure everything out. Most people seem to say that after the 60min mash, the keggle and insulation will only drop the temp a couple degrees.

About my setup:
15.5 gal keggle, top cut out to 11 7/8"
propane fired
No sparge
Single bag (need to order, likely wilserbrewer - his posts have been super helpful)
Hops added in tied off socks
Homemade Copper Immersion chiller

I will siphon the (IC cooled) finished wort out of the keggle, as I've read enough scare stories about ball valves, that I want to keep it simple.
I want a final volume of 5 +/- .5 gallons in the fermenter (glass carboy).
Grains and hops need to be common as I'll be buying from LHBS
I will run the grains through the grinder at the LHBS twice for better crush. Also understand that I should add a pound of base grain for inefficiencies?
I will insulate and cover the keggle during the mash with zero flame
I will squeeze the bag after the mash.
I do not know the boil off rate of my setup, but if needed I'll test with water.
Looking for a light, dummy-proof beer.
I do not currently own a refractometer, just a traditional glass hydrometer.
I use whirlfloc during the boil.
My propane setup probably won't be good to "mash-out" at a specific temp, it just isn't too sensitive in temp control. After I squeeze the bag, the flame will go on till she's boiling.
I don't own a pump and will not be recirculating.

Ideally, i'd like all the details:
Full volume of water to bring to mash temp (152?) and accounts for boil off, grain absorption and trub/hot break loss. Generally I've read about 9 gallons, but I'm unclear on the details.

Exact grain bill
Time of mash (I've seen 10, 20, 60, 90 minutes), 60 seems normal.
I think all of them require typical 60 minute boil.
Type, weight, and timing of hop additions (pellets probably)
Type and amount of yeast to pitch.

I'm not particular about style or type of beer. My friends like lighter ales and lagers and my recent batch of Deschutes red chair clone (partial extract kit from norcal - jay) was about as dark as my friends enjoy. They haven't seen the glory of beers more flavorful than bud light yet. That's another project though.
If it matters I ferment at room temp (72, temp controlled through house thermostat while the carboy sits in my utility sink next to the washer)
I'm not scared of hop-forward beers. I live 10 miles away from Rogue's hop farm and have been dry-hopping my last few batches.

Again, I don't know if it matters, but I keg my batches:
a couple weeks in primary, a week in secondary, then pressure transfer to cornie keg, carb to 20 lbs for a couple days, then put in kegerator (36degF) for a week at 10 lbs CO2 to clarify. This fermenting and kegging schedule has worked without fail for all my extract batches. But I'm open to changes that are not equipment intensive.

I apologize if this is overly needy. I've done a lot of reading, but am still a newbie when it comes to adjustments based on outcomes. I really just want to try the method and see how it works. If you need more information to make a recommendation, I'm happy to fill in the gaps. If I need to read something, don't hesitate to link it and tell me to learn what I'm doing.

Thank you in advance for your patience and help.

 

[RM-MN]

If you double mill the grains you won't need an extra pound of base malt unless the mill is set really coarse. In fact, many of us that do BIAB need to reduce the amount of base male because our efficiencies are too high for most recipes.

Squeezing the bag is one of the reasons that BIAB gets higher efficiency, we get almost all the wort out of the grains that way. You will get a bit more if you sparge, even just pouring water through the bag of grains will rinse out more sugars.

You don't need to do a "mash out" because you aren't fly sparging. That's the only time mash out is needed because with fly sparging you keep the grainbed at mash temps for so long. When the mash period is done, just pull the bag out an light the flame under your keggle. You will stop any conversion in just a couple minutes. You can do a pour through sparge while the collected wort is heating if you have a way to suspend the bag of grains. A rope with a pulley suspended above the pot is popular but an oven rack layed on top of the keggle may be all you need.

Estimate the amount of water. If you boil off too much, remember that that was just water and water can be added back if you are too low. I have a much smaller pot (7 1/2 gallons) and make sure that I have a little space above the liquid for the hot break so it doesn't spill over. I'll start with about 6 1/2 gallons of wort and end up with 5 1/4 gallons of wort into my fermenter but I control my boil so it just maintains a slow rolling boil.

Some of us are experimenting with shorter mashes but for this one, do 60 minutes. You can experiment with shorter times later. The length of mash time depends on the milling of the grain and you aren't the one setting the mill so play it safe.

I don't yet own a refractometer and don't find it terribly necessary. You won't know the OG until the boil is over and the wort chilled but I've always gotten an OG that is "good enough" although a bit high until I started adjusting recipes. As to recipe, just choose one that looks good to you. There are a ton of them in here. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f82/ All recipes are easy with all grain since you don't have a separate steep, just mill them up and put them all in together.

Now, with all that said, your critical item for BIAB is the strike temperature of the water, the temperature you need to start with so that when you add the grains the temperature of the mash is right. That should be calculated as you may use more or less water than me and your grain weight and temperature may be different than mine. I use this one. http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/infusion.html I set the "grain to water" ratio at 2.35 but you might be using a little more water and end up with 2.5 or so. Exact numbers aren't really important, just get close this time so you fit in the mash temperature window and adjust next time if you need to. You'll bring your water to the strike temp, turn off the heat, drop the bag in and stir in the grains. Stir very well because the grain likes to form dough balls, wet on the outside and dry in the middle. You need all the grain wet. I use a stiff wire whisk to break up these dough balls. Insulate the keggle and walk away. Don't even look at it for the full hour. Then pull the cover off and look at the wort. It should be clear, not hazy. If it is hazy, it didn't fully convert and may need more time. Pull the bag and turn on the heat.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I really just want to try the method and see how it works.

OK, Then just "do it". Reading, researching blah blah blah. After you do an AG batch you will be surprised how simple it can be!

Simple Smash 5 gal

11 lbs vienna malt
3oz of your favorite hops(1 @ 60 min, 5 min and flameout)

Heat 8 gallons water to 161 degrees, mix in grain stirring well twice, cover keg with blankets for one hour. Stir, stir, stir some more and remove bag.
Boil, chill to low mid sixties, pitch US05 yeast, ferment below 70 (actual beer temp), keg,enjoy.

Sounds like you were smart enough to easily figure out kegging, you will have no trouble w/ AG.

edit...check volume at end of boil, if needed, top up HOT wort to reach batch size, say 5.5 gallons. Amount of top up will be added to your starting volume next batch. If you have excess, use less total water next batch.

edit edit...I would not be so worried about your kettle valve, drain some boiling wort through it during the boil to heat sanitize and you should be fine.

RDWHAHB, we are not building rockets here!

ps - I would ditch the secondary.

pss - I would suggest making a larger top opening in your keggle for BIAB...jmo

 

[browntown52]

Thank you both, I'm glad I'm over-thinking this. So far beer making seems to be very forgiving, I just get befuddled by all the technique variations.

If you double mill the grains you won't need an extra pound of base malt

Awesome

Squeezing the bag is one of the reasons that BIAB gets higher efficiency, we get almost all the wort out of the grains that way.

Good news, I won't be rinsing, at least not the first time round.

You don't need to do a "mash out" because you aren't fly sparging.

Even better news

Simple Smash 5 gal

11 lbs vienna malt
3oz of your favorite hops(1 @ 60 min, 5 min and flameout)

Heat 8 gallons water to 161 degrees, mix in grain stirring well twice, cover keg with blankets for one hour. Stir, stir, stir some more and remove bag.
Boil, chill to low mid sixties, pitch US05 yeast, ferment below 70 (actual beer temp), keg,enjoy.

That's perfect, sounds like an easy first brew.

edit edit...I would not be so worried about your kettle valve, drain some boiling wort through it during the boil to heat sanitize and you should be fine.

OK, I was mainly looking to avoid sucking up all the trub, but I guess I can put a short dip tube off to the side instead of dead center.

ps - I would ditch the secondary.

Only reason I've done it in the past is I've dumped the whole pot in the fermenter and end up with a lot of stuff at the bottom of the fermenter. Racking to secondary just allows me to siphon less garbage into the cornie. If I'm able to keep most of the junk out when I pour into the fermenter, I'm happy to skip that step.

- I would suggest making a larger top opening in your keggle for BIAB...jmo

OK, OK. I know I asked in the other thread and got cold feet. I'll cut off the top and take measurements so you can make me a bag for the topless keg.

Thanks again for all the help. If I get off my arse and cut the keggle up and get my bag order in, I should be brewing my first BIAB next week.

 

[RM-MN]

Thank you both, I'm glad I'm over-thinking this. So far beer making seems to be very forgiving, I just get befuddled by all the technique variations.


Awesome

Good news, I won't be rinsing, at least not the first time round.
Even better news


That's perfect, sounds like an easy first brew.

OK, I was mainly looking to avoid sucking up all the trub, but I guess I can put a short dip tube off to the side instead of dead center.

Only reason I've done it in the past is I've dumped the whole pot in the fermenter and end up with a lot of stuff at the bottom of the fermenter. Racking to secondary just allows me to siphon less garbage into the cornie. If I'm able to keep most of the junk out when I pour into the fermenter, I'm happy to skip that step.

OK, OK. I know I asked in the other thread and got cold feet. I'll cut off the top and take measurements so you can make me a bag for the topless keg.

Thanks again for all the help. If I get off my arse and cut the keggle up and get my bag order in, I should be brewing my first BIAB next week.

If you have 5 gallon stock pot and can get a 5 gallon paint strainer bag you can start BIAB brewing now. I do a lot of 2 1/2 gallon batches and find it so easy to do.

If you aren't in a rush to get the beer kegged, skip the secondary and leave it longer in primary so the yeast settles well and gets compacted. With a little care you can siphon nearly all the beer without getting trub in your keg. Try 3 to 5 weeks and see what you get. I bottle and I'm used to seeing the layer in my bottles but the one time I left the beer in the primary for 9 weeks I could hardly see the layer in the bottles because it was so small.

 

[RM-MN]

Thank you both, I'm glad I'm over-thinking this. So far beer making seems to be very forgiving, I just get befuddled by all the technique variations.


Awesome

Good news, I won't be rinsing, at least not the first time round.
Even better news


That's perfect, sounds like an easy first brew.

OK, I was mainly looking to avoid sucking up all the trub, but I guess I can put a short dip tube off to the side instead of dead center.

Only reason I've done it in the past is I've dumped the whole pot in the fermenter and end up with a lot of stuff at the bottom of the fermenter. Racking to secondary just allows me to siphon less garbage into the cornie. If I'm able to keep most of the junk out when I pour into the fermenter, I'm happy to skip that step.

OK, OK. I know I asked in the other thread and got cold feet. I'll cut off the top and take measurements so you can make me a bag for the topless keg.

Thanks again for all the help. If I get off my arse and cut the keggle up and get my bag order in, I should be brewing my first BIAB next week.

If you have 5 gallon stock pot and can get a 5 gallon paint strainer bag you can start BIAB brewing now. I do a lot of 2 1/2 gallon batches and find it so easy to do.

If you aren't in a rush to get the beer kegged, skip the secondary and leave it longer in primary so the yeast settles well and gets compacted. With a little care you can siphon nearly all the beer without getting trub in your keg. Try 3 to 5 weeks and see what you get. I bottle and I'm used to seeing the layer in my bottles but the one time I left the beer in the primary for 9 weeks I could hardly see the layer in the bottles because it was so small.

 

[RM-MN]

Thank you both, I'm glad I'm over-thinking this. So far beer making seems to be very forgiving, I just get befuddled by all the technique variations.


Awesome

Good news, I won't be rinsing, at least not the first time round.
Even better news


That's perfect, sounds like an easy first brew.

OK, I was mainly looking to avoid sucking up all the trub, but I guess I can put a short dip tube off to the side instead of dead center.

Only reason I've done it in the past is I've dumped the whole pot in the fermenter and end up with a lot of stuff at the bottom of the fermenter. Racking to secondary just allows me to siphon less garbage into the cornie. If I'm able to keep most of the junk out when I pour into the fermenter, I'm happy to skip that step.

OK, OK. I know I asked in the other thread and got cold feet. I'll cut off the top and take measurements so you can make me a bag for the topless keg.

Thanks again for all the help. If I get off my arse and cut the keggle up and get my bag order in, I should be brewing my first BIAB next week.

If you have 5 gallon stock pot and can get a 5 gallon paint strainer bag you can start BIAB brewing now. I do a lot of 2 1/2 gallon batches and find it so easy to do.

If you aren't in a rush to get the beer kegged, skip the secondary and leave it longer in primary so the yeast settles well and gets compacted. With a little care you can siphon nearly all the beer without getting trub in your keg. Try 3 to 5 weeks and see what you get. I bottle and I'm used to seeing the layer in my bottles but the one time I left the beer in the primary for 9 weeks I could hardly see the layer in the bottles because it was so small.

 

[TexasWine]

Only reason I've done it in the past is I've dumped the whole pot in the fermenter and end up with a lot of stuff at the bottom of the fermenter. Racking to secondary just allows me to siphon less garbage into the cornie. If I'm able to keep most of the junk out when I pour into the fermenter, I'm happy to skip that step.

I dump the entire contents directly into primary and I don't use a secondary. Easy peasy. Last time I even went directly from the primary into the keg and my beer is crystal clear.

I say go for it!

 

[Beernik]

I was listening to Denny Conn on the BeerSmith podcast. He had a great suggestion for determining the preboil OG:

1. Pull a sample in a metal cocktail shaker.
2. Set the cocktail shaker in a water bath to cool off.
3. Stick a digital thermometer in the cocktail shaker so you know when it reaches room temperature.
4. Pour the sample into your hydrometer measuring tube.
5. Measure the pre-boil OG with the hydrometer.

No need to use a refract to determine preboil OG.

I basically did what you did on my two keggle BIAB brews. I am in the process of installing a ball valve and dip tube.