Recipe Advice for my Cloked Out Raisin Stout

[goin2brew]

I was out for a night walk and I noticed a familiar smell in the air. At first it was like caramelized raisins. the further I walked the more complex it got. Slowly the scent of cloves entered the picture and enhanced the sweetness of the raisin scent that then started to mingle with a smooth smokiness of burning wood. (Ahhh smells of the city.)

All of this together was subtle, but with complex layering and I thought this would be great to capture in a beer. So I named it Cloked (Clove + Smoked) out raisin stout.

Here is what I have so far for my test batch.

Estimated Stats

OG 1.055
FG 1.014
IBU 51
ABV 5.3 %
SRM 39

Boil Volume 4.1 Gal
Batch Size 3 Gal
90 min. Boil

Grain Bill

4# American Two-row Pale
1# German Smoked
8oz Roasted Barley
8oz Belgian Special B
4oz Flaked Barley

Hops
1oz Northern Brewer x90 min

Coopers ale Yeast.


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I've never used special B before, but was hoping to capture the raisin-like essence it imparts. I'm wondering how much is enough to add a layer of complexity without overpowering the other tastes.

I never used smoked malt either, so I guess I have the same question on the amount.

Third, I was thinking of making a clove tea and adding that to taste at bottling, but was toying with the idea of using scottish ale yeast and hope to capture the clove-like qualities, but am afraid of it being a dominant flavor since I know yeast can play a huge part in flavor.

Will my recipe bring out the characteristics and levels of complexity I'm looking for?

If not, please steer me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Damian

 

[elkdog]

If it's a clove flavor you want, I think you should at least look at a german hefeweizen strain for your yeast. Just because this isn't a wheat beer doesn't mean you can't use that yeast. That might be stronger than you want in terms of cloves, though. I don't think the Scottish Ale has that much of a clove flavor to it.

A second idea would be a clove extract, which seems to be available at health food/ natural remedy sorts of places. That might more accurately convey the clove flavor you want, and you could add it drop by drop until the clove presence was where you wanted it.

 

[goin2brew]

If it's a clove flavor you want, I think you should at least look at a german hefeweizen strain for your yeast. Just because this isn't a wheat beer doesn't mean you can't use that yeast. That might be stronger than you want in terms of cloves, though.

Could I make a yeast blend to cut down on the clove punch? Maybe 1/2 weight in a hefeweizen strain and the other half in a neutral like coopers?

Maybe 5 grams Hefweizen and 5 grams Coopers? or is it not that simple?

 

[elkdog]

People do blend yeasts, but I'd be speaking way beyond my expertise if I speculated about it. I haven't done it personally (haven't had occasion to). There's a little bit about it in the new Yeast book, and I don't see anything there to discourage you, but there isn't much specific data there either way.

There is the American Hefeweizen strain that is supposed to be toned down in comparison to the German ones. I haven't used it, though- I'm sure a forum search will turn up some feedback on it.

Belgian strains may also get at the spiciness you're after.

 

[goin2brew]

Sounds like a starting point.
Thanks for your insight.

 

[dcp27]

Personally, I'd go with WLP380 for the yeast. Theres no banana (slight citrusy/apricot notes instead), and while its pretty strong on the clove in a hefe, its cuz theres nothing there to cover it. behind roasted barley and smoked malt im pretty sure it'll be held in check.

 

[goin2brew]

I may have to make a few small batches and try it all out. Oh darn.... that means I have to make and drink more beer.

So what about the Special B and Smoked Malt levels? Strong enough? Too strong?
I guess that will be an experiment too.

 

[elkdog]

I think you're good with the smoked and the Special B. If you wanted to swap out half of the Special B for a lighter crystal, like 60 or 80, that might help balance things out, but I don't think you're using too much here either.

 

[goin2brew]

I think you're good with the smoked and the Special B. If you wanted to swap out half of the Special B for a lighter crystal, like 60 or 80, that might help balance things out, but I don't think you're using too much here either.

What if I swapped out the American 2-row for Maris Otter instead of using a crystal malt? or maybe used 2# of each? Would that make it just a little more complex without burying the other qualities?

 

[elkdog]

What if I swapped out the American 2-row for Maris Otter instead of using a crystal malt? or maybe used 2# of each? Would that make it just a little more complex without burying the other qualities?

I was just thinking that Special B is pretty potent- I don't think you have too much there, and was only throwing out an idea that might get more complexity, though perhaps at the expense of the desired raisin character.

As for the base malt, I love Maris Otter and wouldn't hesitate to use it. The difference will be subtle in a stout like this, but it is, to use a term Yooper recently coined, a "maltier malt" in that it brings more of a warm biscuit flavor with it. You've got some strong flavors here, so it may not make a huge difference to use MO, but it absolutely won't hurt anything- it does cost a little more.

 

[goin2brew]

I guess I'll just go with plain 2-row so the other grains can be more upfront. I enjoy MO as well, but I remember a SNPA clone that I made and my LHBS was out of 2row (B/C of shipping issues) so I substituted MO. It was really good, but it seemed to balance the hop flavor and bitterness more than I wanted and made an overall different tasting beer.

Suppose I answered my own question in regards to MO.

Maybe if I dropped the 4 oz of Flaked Barley and used 4 oz of crystal 80L instead?
It would still provide more mouthfeel and head retention of the Flaked Barley, but with a caramel flavor that blends with the special B instead of aiding the smoked malt with the grainy flavor of the flaked barley.

 

[elkdog]

I guess I'll just go with plain 2-row so the other grains can be more upfront. I enjoy MO as well, but I remember a SNPA clone that I made and my LHBS was out of 2row (B/C of shipping issues) so I substituted MO. It was really good, but it seemed to balance the hop flavor and bitterness more than I wanted and made an overall different tasting beer.

Suppose I answered my own question in regards to MO.

Maybe if I dropped the 4 oz of Flaked Barley and used 4 oz of crystal 80L instead?
It would still provide more mouthfeel and head retention of the Flaked Barley, but with a caramel flavor that blends with the special B instead of aiding the smoked malt with the grainy flavor of the flaked barley.

I think that would work well. That brings you to .75 # of crystal total, or 12.5% of your grist- that should have a nice sweetness to back up the smokiness.

 

[goin2brew]

I think that would work well. That brings you to .75 # of crystal total, or 12.5% of your grist- that should have a nice sweetness to back up the smokiness.

I guess I'll try this first and see how it goes

Thanks for all your help.


I'll post back when I start putting this into motion. Maybe a week or two.... I'll split this into 2 batches and try a spicy clovey yeast like WLP380 vs Neutral yeast + clove tea or extract in the secondary.

 

[goin2brew]

Well its been about a month or two and I finally have the ingredients to brew tomorrow. Looking at the stats after some changes its more of an Amber or Brown Ale than a stout. Anyway, this is what I decided to try:

5.25 Gal
70% Efficiency
OG: 1.054
IBU: 29.2
SRM: 14

6.5LB US 2Row Pale
2.0LB German Smoked Malt
1.5LB White Wheat Malt
.75LB Crystal 120L (LHBS outta Spec. B)

@60 mins 0.45oz Magnum Hops (14.1%)
@15 mins 1 Whirlfloc Tab
@10 mins 4 crushed cloves

Safale S-05 (American Ale)



Decided on the neutral yeast and clean bittering to help the Malt Profile shine through. Also tweaked the grain bill by dropping the flaked and roasted barley and subbing in white wheat to try for more balance.

Still might make a clove tea and add it at bottling time vs the 10 min addition so I can get the right flavor and aroma in the bottle. That will be a game time decision.

 

[goin2brew]

Brewed this last night/this morning - My OG was 1.052.

The dominate aroma in the boil was definitely the smoked malt. (Glad I dropped down to 2#)
I used 4 whole cloves at 10 mins and didn't really smell them in the boil - time will tell.
I could smell the Raisin/Plum of the 120L after a few hours in the fermentor airlock.