Recalled Nottingham in my Christmas Ale...Doh

[dilbone]

I'm a total noob, but thought I'd post this as an FYI. I know the Nottingham discussion has been going on since September, but I'm always a little late to the party

I've brewed 2 coopers australian pale ale kits for my first 2 brews. They both turned out really well and I was impressed to say the least with the simplicity of the kit while still having a nice quality.

I wanted to put together a nice light christmas ale without a kit just using extract and a couple of oz of hops...so here's my batch.

3.3lbs light LME
2lbs Amber DME
.5lb Dextrose
1oz Chinook 20min boil(2 gal)
1oz Cascade 20min boil
3/4tsp cinnamon 10minute boil
3/4tsp nutmeg 10minute boil

OG around 1.049, should end up around 4.5-5% ...like I said, a light ale.

I got it down to 70F and pitched my Nottingham on Sunday 3pm.
By Monday evening...no activity that I could see(airlock or krausen)
I was getting a little impatient as both my kits were very active well under 24hrs.
At that point I had gotten on here to see that there had been problems with nottingham and not only that but a recall...too bad I had thrown away the wrapper and the trash was picked up monday morning...I couldn't check mine

So this evening(tues.) I pop off the lid and check gravity...1.049, no activity at all at about 51 hours(I know couldn't hold out to 72hours but I'm glad I didn't). I stopped by my LHBS and what do I see but all the nottingham yeast pulled from the shelf and he was doing through all of his brewers best kits to check those packets. He threw me a good packet out of one of the kits and I was on my way. Just pitched it and I'll cross my fingers and hope to have some activity by thursday...at the latest.

 

[infection]

that batch of recalled Notty must be hit or miss

this weekend I made 10 gallons of blonde ale (1.040 OG) and split one non-hydrated recalled packet between 2 carboys into well oxygenated wort.....things were churning within 12 hours

 

[Haz]

Used a pack of the "bad" yeast last week, working in less than 12 hours.

Don't believe all the hype. Just gets you worked up over absolutely nothing.

 

[Walker]

I bought 5 packs of that "bad" Notty. I've made two great batches of brown with it, and the other three packs are still in the fridge. I fully intend to use them.

 

[Sacdan]

I also have used 5 packets of it and have had no issues whatsoever.

 

[mojotele]

It seems some people have had perfectly fine fermentations with that batch of Notty, others have had no fermentation, and others have had bad fermentations with excessive phenols and other undesirable by-products.

Hit or miss indeed.

 

[tunoffun]

Used a pack of the "bad" yeast last week, working in less than 12 hours.

Don't believe all the hype. Just gets you worked up over absolutely nothing.

If the OP actively disbelieves the hype, will that cause his fermentation to begin?

 

[mojotele]

If the OP actively disbelieves the hype, will that cause his fermentation to begin?

I've got to agree with your point here. It sounds like the OP did everything right, and 51 hours is a long time with absolutely no downward movement on the gravity for Notty. Especially given that this is a rather mild ale at an OG of 1.049.

The packet of yeast is pretty suspect in this scenario. MAYBE NOT THE BATCH. But at least his specific packet of yeast.

 

[greenbirds]

Remember, if you used Nottingham yeast and it had no problems, everyone who did have problems is clearly a poor brewer. At least that's the vibe you get around here.The mass of anecdotal evidence stated as fact/proof being flung around this message board is unbelievable. Not aiming that at mojotele or any particular poster -- there just seem to be 2 sides to this debate who are unwilling to budge.

The reality is that many good brewers have used Nottingham within the last year or so and had some poor (if any) fermentations.

You're not hearing about these problems with any other brewing yeast on the market, though most of the Nottingham seems fine. So you have to decide whether or not you like your odds.

 

[tunoffun]

I don't know squat about the recall, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a problem with storage or transportation. Seems like that would be one way a portion of the batch might be affected that the company might not have a way to account for or track?

 

[dilbone]

Got home from work this afternoon...the krausen was forming and the airlock was bubbling...

I walked into the house at about 73.5hrs post 1st pitch, and 19.5hrs post 2nd pitch...

Could the original packet pitched have started this fermentation... possibly, no way to know now...but I really didn't want to wait around for another 24 hrs. to find out since there was a recall. Especially without having had ANY change in gravity in the first 51 hours...

Of course because of the recall the 2nd packet didn't cost me anything...but given all of the stuff I've heard about nottingham being so hit or miss I'd probably do the same thing next time even if it cost me $1.75 to do it...

 

[Walker]

No way to know what happened. Revvy would tell you that since you didn't wait the full 72 hours, then you didn't wait long enough before panicking. (Personally, I would be thinking something was wrong if my fermentation hadn't started in 24 hours. I know 72 hours is what is being claimed as ok around here, and maybe it is, but i've never had one take that long and would not consider it normal at all.)

As for the debate... I was not trying to come off as being on one side of the 'bad batch' debate and unwilling to budge on it or calling anyone a bad brewer. I misread the first post and thought he HAD seen some small gravity drop and that he was just being nervous about having used the 'bad batch' in the brew. My comment was meant to lend comfort that all was not necessarily lost and that some people (myself included) had gotten perfectly good results with that yeast.

I do agree that SOMETHING must be wrong with at least a portion of that lot of yeast. Too many folks having problems to deny it.

 

[mojotele]

Remember, if you used Nottingham yeast and it had no problems, everyone who did have problems is clearly a poor brewer. At least that's the vibe you get around here.The mass of anecdotal evidence stated as fact/proof being flung around this message board is unbelievable. Not aiming that at mojotele or any particular poster -- there just seem to be 2 sides to this debate who are unwilling to budge.

The reality is that many good brewers have used Nottingham within the last year or so and had some poor (if any) fermentations.

You're not hearing about these problems with any other brewing yeast on the market, though most of the Nottingham seems fine. So you have to decide whether or not you like your odds.

I'm not sure why I would think that was directed at me at all. I think I agree with you, unless I'm totally misunderstanding your post. I have been drinking a lot tonight, tho

 

[dilbone]

Just bottled this batch tonight...

Smells and tastes fantastic...can't wait for carbonation.

Doing my own hop boil instead of prehoped extract made a HUGE difference in flavor and aroma...wow

I'm not sure if the spice flavor is mostly from the hop choices or if indeed the nutmeg and cinnamin are showing through...we'll see after it conditions.

 

[jmo88]

I'm a total noob, but thought I'd post this as an FYI. I know the Nottingham discussion has been going on since September 2009

Fixed that for you.

Wow BGSU alum here. You're the first I've seen on HBT. I miss that place. Is Howard's still there? I used to have a great apt on Main right beside Easy Street.

 

[vicratlhead51]

I had a really similar experience with a pale ale I made that had about the same gravity. I waited 2 days on the morning of the third I went to the lhbs and bought a couple more satchets of notty so I could repitch and have some on hand for the future and when I got home and opened the lid on my fermenter there was a nice healthy krausen on the top. So the yeast did take off. Dunno if I should blame the yeast or if I had poor aeration but it definitely reinforced RDWHAHB. I was really stressing over it on the second day because the 4 batches I had done before took off like rockets

 

[dilbone]

Fixed that for you.

Wow BGSU alum here. You're the first I've seen on HBT. I miss that place. Is Howard's still there? I used to have a great apt on Main right beside Easy Street.

I was talking specifically about the recall discussion since september...

Yeah...alum here too...decided to stay after graduation upon getting a teaching job 30minutes west of BG(15 long years ago lol).
Yeah, Howard's is still there and just as big of a dungeon as ever.
The Cla-Zel has been turned into a bar/music venue after a million dollar renovation. Nicest place in town...

 

[billf2112]

I was at my LHBS yesterday and mentioned the recall. They had gone through every kit in the store and replaced the yeast listed in the recall. They only have hundreds of kits not thousands, so I think going to the LHBS is the safest bet about this yeast. It appears that this recall was more about protecting the rep of the company then a bad product. Any yeast could be bad, that is why they do starters have the smack packs etc.

 

[jfr1111]

I was at my LHBS yesterday and mentioned the recall. They had gone through every kit in the store and replaced the yeast listed in the recall. They only have hundreds of kits not thousands, so I think going to the LHBS is the safest bet about this yeast. It appears that this recall was more about protecting the rep of the company then a bad product. Any yeast could be bad, that is why they do starters have the smack packs etc.

The recall wasn't just about protecting the reputation of the company: there's been a few recalls in the past two years of Nottingham. How many recalls of Wyeast/White Labs/Fermentis during that time frame ?

It's more than a case of "any yeast could be bad".

 

[DFCARTER]

Well one thing about it is that dry yeast is talked up to be a non-starter ( ... aka you dont have to make a starter) so I think there are more chances for it to get just chunked in and not even hydrated and still be expected to perform generally that is the case. If you use a vial generally its gospel to have a starter or not complain so its sort of a totally different product.

 

[nutty_gnome]

... Any yeast could be bad, that is why they do starters have the smack packs etc.

Thats offensive to White Labs and Wyeast and even to supermarket branded red star bread yeast. Danstar yeasts are the ones that are questionable. As is their customer service and reputation after these two screw-ups.

 

[Heineken]

I used a Nottingham and it fermented great. However, when I bottled my carbonation turned out low. It carbed buy very little. It appears the yeast didn't do its job with the carbonation. I may end up pouring the bottles in my keg once the current keg is empty and force carbing.

 

[Keith_Mahoney]

I have a porter fermenting right now that I used a pack of Notti on. It took off like a rocket for 2 days and even overflowed the growler I had the blow off tube in. I just took a gravity reading today and it's stuck at 32 down from 65 twelve days ago. I got to wait until Wednesday to go to the LHBS to get more yeast.
Hopefully it picks back up before then but I haven't seen any action in a week.

 

[dilbone]

Thats offensive to White Labs and Wyeast and even to supermarket branded red star bread yeast. Danstar yeasts are the ones that are questionable. As is their customer service and reputation after these two screw-ups.

Yeah, I need to go in and talk to my LHBS and see if he is going to continue to stock nottingham...I hope he at least begins to stock another option for ales as notty is all he has had in the past.

Mine ended up fermenting just fine...but again I don't know if it was the initial pack or the pack I added 54 hours in that did its job. 1.049 OG and a 1.011FG after 16 days... It's carbing up now...I hope...