Raw Ale / No Boil

[applescrap]

Drink among the last bottle No Boil beer standing for just over a month in the fridge. It looks a bit cleaner, tastes the same as before, but got some bad smell.

Making few batches of No Boil Beer I have found that this is the greatest disadvantage of this method. It's not stable and it's fast changing to worse.
As far as I can tell, it's best to drink it within 20 days. The flavor and the taste change afterwards.

You had asked about difference between no boil on i think a different thread. I think the answer is that to me no boil has a slightly better taste albeit different. The fresh grain taste is enjoyable imo. Ultimately though i went with a boil for stability concerns and to get the hops a little more how i wanted them. I am still very curious about raw ale, but knowing the beer is going to sit a while in this case, wasnt confident in no boil stability. Anyone had really long stability with no boil?

Edit, just saw that article. Really enjoyed it.

 

[applescrap]

An idea with regards to stability:
With no boil taking place, the dissolved oxygen in the wort is not being driven off at all, potentially leading to advanced staling and oxidation. Maybe brewtan B could help?

Excellent idea.

 

[NickAus]

Hi, just a question, has anyone tried to NC in a keg? I'm going to start fermenting in kegs, if one could work as a NC container that would be great, I'd fill it to the brim then ferment in it, but maybe that would still be too much air in there? Not sure and keen to hear! Thank you!

 

[Miraculix]

You had asked about difference between no boil on i think a different thread. I think the answer is that to me no boil has a slightly better taste albeit different. The fresh grain taste is enjoyable imo. Ultimately though i went with a boil for stability concerns and to get the hops a little more how i wanted them. I am still very curious about raw ale, but knowing the beer is going to sit a while in this case, wasnt confident in no boil stability. Anyone had really long stability with no boil?

Edit, just saw that article. Really enjoyed it.

I have a wild brett raw ale sitting here since half a year, doing its thing. I don't know how it will turn out but the last sample I took tasted pretty boring but certainly drinkable. I might try to get a small bottle out of the fermenter just to see if it will carbonate and how it tastes when carbonated.

 

[NickAus]

Okay disregard, apparently the NC in a keg is do-able but messy and too many cons. Cheers

 

[troglodytes]

My quick no boil mixed fermentation beer is finished and amazing. It turned out to be a very sour, (tastes like it got down to 3.1-3.2 pH) crisp beer. There's a great mix of the flavors coming from both the brett and lacto, I dry hopped with 5 Oz of Citra (the only hops in it) to give a nice citrus aroma. One thing I noticed, is that despite only dry hopping, it seems there was absolutely bitterness extracted, maybe due to the low pH.

One surprising thing about the taste is how the breadiness and body of this beer has decreased substantially over the past month. I initially tried a no boil with high mash temp to see if I could retain more protein and still have body for such a light, dry brew. It seems that the no boil method in this case gave the lacto a lot to eat after the yeast was finished which produced the most sour beer I've made to date in very short time, but it does not contribute to a fuller body in the finished product.

Regardless, the results are very nice, and at <4% ABV, you can drink a lot of these in one sitting.

 

[Ninoid]

In my experience No Boil beer with mash hop has a longer shelf life. Maybe because the hop lowers the pH value of the mash. I currently drink No Boil / No Chill IPA with all hop added after mash (no whirlpool). There is a lot of bitterness (not as a boiled IPA) and a lot of floral aromas and flavors. I'll try to keep a one bottle for two months so I'll see if it has a longer life span than my other No Boil beers hopped with hop tea.

 

[NickAus]

My second no boil is kegged, the bitterness was considerably lower and for some reason the hop aroma wasn't great, might have been old hops so I made an amarillo hop tea that smelt amazing and added it to the keg last night, see how it goes.

The beer itself is very clear thanks to whirlfloc and tasty, definitely a breadiness to it but it is still very green, I force carbonated so I think in 1-2 weeks this will be a very easy drinker.

 

[cmac62]

An idea with regards to stability:
With no boil taking place, the dissolved oxygen in the wort is not being driven off at all, potentially leading to advanced staling and oxidation. Maybe brewtan B could help?

I would think the yeast will take care of any oxygen in the wort when they do the fermentation. Is this not correct?

 

[Ninoid]

I think the non-evaporated proteins are guilty of instability and rapid change of taste and smell. Not oxygen.

 

[applescrap]

Okay disregard, apparently the NC in a keg is do-able but messy and too many cons. Cheers

There are people who nc, ferment, and drink in said keg. Either trimmed or bent dip tube. I dont have a way to get hot wort into keg. But if you had a ball valve you could easily i imagine. If you want to nc and store for a while you need one of those plastic cubes to squeeze air out. I still dream of having a bunch of cubes on the ready. Then when needed dump and ferment.

 

[Ninoid]

I drink first bottle of my No Boil / No Chill Saison.
Not bad. Looks like, it has the smell and taste like white wine. Fermented with M29 yeast. I'm currently fermenting another Saison boiled for 30 minutes and fermented with BE-139 yeast. I'm just interested in being different from this.

 

[Miraculix]

I drink first bottle of my No Boil / No Chill Saison.
Not bad. Looks like, it has the smell and taste like white wine. Fermented with M29 yeast. I'm currently fermenting another Saison boiled for 30 minutes and fermented with BE-139 yeast. I'm just interested in being different from this.

That is an excelent experiment! Let us know how it turns out!

What is BE 139? never heard of it!

 

[Ninoid]

That is an excelent experiment! Let us know how it turns out!

What is BE 139? never heard of it!

Mistake. BE-134

 

[Ninoid]

My No Boil / No Chill Saison have all hop in hop tea form and it is to bitter.

Have 20g Styrian Dana on 30 minute and 20g on 10 minute on 23L of wort. Tea is boiled in 2L of pure water. But, I not cool it rapidly and I pour this tea to hot wort on 80'C. I think that pretty much boosted bitterness.

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

Instead of no boil, I'd maybe run the mash off, boil for 10 minutes or something or at least raise it to 180 or 185 for a bit to pasteurize and add hops, then let it cool down naturally. That way, you'd get some isomerization, which begins happening in the 185 range.
Otherwise, I think not boiling will likely give you a sour (read: infected) beer because the lactobacillus hasn't had a chance to be killed in the boil. So if you like sours, GO FOR IT.

A professional brewer in Oregon gave a lecture to our brew club and talked about a 10 minute boil. We were all wondering about that and nobody challenged the idea since he showed up for free. It was one of the very small breweries.

 

[NickAus]

There are people who nc, ferment, and drink in said keg. Either trimmed or bent dip tube. I dont have a way to get hot wort into keg. But if you had a ball valve you could easily i imagine. If you want to nc and store for a while you need one of those plastic cubes to squeeze air out. I still dream of having a bunch of cubes on the ready. Then when needed dump and ferment.

I've got a bunch of cubes, they are great. fermenting in the keg appealed to me as then a keg to keg co2 transfer would ensure no o2, seems like a lot of folks tried keg fermenting and have given it a miss now, at least over here anyway

 

[Ninoid]

I drank the first Saison bottle I cooked for 30 minutes. The look is very similar to the No Boil version, but it has some more pleasant bitterness that lasts long after the sip.

 

[Sawwal]

Was looking at the Munton site about DME, and came across the following question and response from 2012:


“People in my home brewing community are saying that you no longer have to boil LME or DME for 60 minutes. Only 10-15 minutes. The claim is its not necessary since it already don’t in manufacturing of the malt. The motivation is so they don’t caramelize the malt any more than necessary which would make their beers darker than the desired colour. Is this true? – Thanks!

To be honest with you don’t need to boil Muntons LME or DME at all as we pasteurise our LME and the DME, by the nature of the process, will be pasteurised. By not boiling you will maintain the delicate malt flavour in our products and obtain a far better beer.”


I’m tempted; I’m really tempted . . .

 

[Ninoid]

It is fairly clear and logical that LME / DME does not need to be boiled because it is thermally converted into the production process. But then the problem of getting bitterness of hop is to be solved. I have used a lot of hop tea and it is possible to get good bitterness, but it is true that this bitterness is not the same as for the wort boil.

 

[beersk]

Reviving an old thread...

I'm looking at doing some no boil beers, but not no chill. I have some concerns about the sanitation of ball valves, however. How do folks handle this part of the process? I'm also concerned about shelf life, yes, but most beers will be consumed within a month. So it shouldn't be a big worry.

I was thinking, at least for 3 gallon batches, to do a full volume mash, run off into kettle with first wort hops, heat to 170F and hold for 10 minutes or so with chiller already in there, then chill like normal and pitch yeast and ferment as normal.

After a year, has anyone found anything more, like improving shelf stability, etc. that hasn't already been mentioned here? Has Brewtan B helped this? I have some and regularly use it for my boiled beers.

 

[Ninoid]

Twice I had a case where my heater stopped working at the beginning of boil. Then I would leave the wort for up to an hour without cooling and get a beer of solid bitterness and durability certainly greater than a two month.

I use the hose just because I had trouble keeping the faucet clean. In addition, they can pull all the beer from the fermenter with a hose.

After a bad experience with all grain no boil, I suggest you heat it up until boil and leave it for at least half an hour.

 

[beersk]

Yes, I've had some concerns about it as is normal. My other options would be to heat up to 170F in a kettle that does not have a ball valve, chill in an ice batch, and proceed as normal after that. OR, I would skip the no boil process and boil for 20-30 minutes.

I certainly think the point of all of this is that a 60 minute boil is far from necessary. But this defeats the purpose of no boil. I also kind of like the idea of brewing in an old-world-style. Certainly don't have an interest in using herbs in place of hops or using juniper.

 

[Ninoid]

I have a lot of experience with no boil and short boil because I brew in a windowless bathroom so I have problems with the evaporation output. Some minimum is 15 minutes of boil. I usually boil for 20 minutes and FWH + Hopstand hops.

 

[WIexile]

Yes, I've had some concerns about it as is normal. My other options would be to heat up to 170F in a kettle that does not have a ball valve, chill in an ice batch, and proceed as normal after that. OR, I would skip the no boil process and boil for 20-30 minutes.

I certainly think the point of all of this is that a 60 minute boil is far from necessary. But this defeats the purpose of no boil. I also kind of like the idea of brewing in an old-world-style. Certainly don't have an interest in using herbs in place of hops or using juniper.

I mostly brew no-boil these days and never have a issue. I also do not chill and wait till the next day to pitch yeast... So I would suggest going up to 175F and let it sit there for 10 mins, then let it cool down in what ever way you please.

 

[Ninoid]

No boil = unstable foam and flavor, it is difficult to get proper bitterness.
Maybe for IPA and NEIPA and fast drink.

 

[WIexile]

No boil = unstable foam and flavor, it is difficult to get proper bitterness.
Maybe for IPA and NEIPA and fast drink.

Never have issues with foam retention, or flavor... Bitterness can also be adjusted during mash with a mash hop addition.

But I do mostly brew NEIPA's, so take that for what it is worth.

 

[Ninoid]

Never have issues with foam retention, or flavor... Bitterness can also be adjusted during mash with a mash hop addition.

But I do mostly brew NEIPA's, so take that for what it is worth.

I never brew NEIPA but I have read, and believe from my own experience, that no boil is a good technique for that style.
With no boil I had trouble with deteriorating the taste of beer 20 days after bottling and start to lift the foam out of the bottle when opened.

Due to an accident with a boil kettle heater, I found that it was much better to warm up wort to a boil and allow it to evaporate for a while than with a no boil.

 

[cmac62]

Here's a link to a thread about using DME and no heat NEIPA.

Blasphemy - No Boil NEIPA

 

[Ninoid]

Here's a link to a thread about using DME and no heat NEIPA.

Blasphemy - No Boil NEIPA

DME is processed at the factory so that it does not need to be boil, except for the bitterness of the hops.
All grain is different.