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Raspberry Ale.. 2 Questions

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NorCalHB

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I have two questions in regards to a raspberry ale I want to make for my girlfriend and her friends. First questions is- if I purchase a raspberry ale kit from AHB can I brew the kit as required except leave out the raspberry extract that comes with the kit and add fresh raspberries when I rack it to secondary? Will this allow me to get the raspberry flavoring in the beer? Second question- If I am able to add fresh raspberries, how to I pasturize them? If I boil then in water wont they just turn to mush? I've seen pictures of fresh, whole raspberries in a carboy. Please help. As always, thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.
 
I can answer the 1st ?.Add it when you bottle for the best flavor
 
taken from byo. http://www.byo.com/stories/recipes/article/indices/38-ingredients/683-fruit-brew-part-2-techniques

Using Fruits in Secondary Fermentation
For most fruits, the best time to add them is in secondary fermentation. When added at this time, the fruits are not subjected to heat, their flavors do not end up tasting cooked and their aromas are not lost. The drawback, of course, is that adding fruits in the secondary fermenter runs the risk of contaminating the beer. However, green beer generally has enough alcohol and a pH low enough to discourage the growth of contaminating organisms.

For fresh fruits, remove the stems, leaves and pits or seeds. Wash the fruit thoroughly. If you want, you can use commercial produce-washing products such as Fit, although this isn’t necessary. You should reduce the fruit to small pieces by one of several methods: Mash the fruit with a potato masher, chop it with a food processor or cut it up with a knife. Place the fruit in your secondary fermenter and siphon beer on top of it. It is also important that the fermenter is sealed tightly. If air can get in, microorganisms can grow on the top of the floating fruit. (This is what happened to my ill-fated cherry beer.) It is usually best to use a large bucket — one with some headspace — as a secondary fermenter, as some foaming may occur when the yeast begins working on the fruit sugars.

One way to minimize the risk of contamination from fresh fruits is to take a page from the winemakers’ handbook and sterilize the fruit with sulfur dioxide. Winemakers do not sterilize their “wort” by boiling it. They sterilize their “must” by treating it with SO2 (often in the form of Campden tablets). To sterilize a “mini-must,” mush your fruit into a slurry in a sanitized bucket. Add enough water so that it’s basically a thick liquid. Add one crushed Campden tablet for every gallon of your “mini-must” and let sit, loosely covered, overnight. During this time the SO2 will kill any microorganism in the “mini-must,” then diffuse away. The SO2 also acts as an antioxidant, preventing browning of the fruit. The next day, add the now-sanitized “mini-must” to your fermenter.

Adding fruits during secondary fermentation increases the volume of the brew, but some of this volume is lost when beer is racked from the remaining fruit solids. You can plan for this by making less volume of your base beer, but making it somewhat more concentrated. The degree you need to change your base beer depends, of course, on how much fruit you plan to add. (Alternately, you can choose to simply not worry about it and end up with a couple extra beers in your batch.)

To add concentrates, purées or juices to your secondary fermentation, begin racking the base beer to the secondary fermenter. Slowly pour the fruit into the secondary fermenter as the beer is racked so that the fruit and beer mix well. You may want to stir with a sterilized spoon.

The beer can be left in contact with the fruit for varying amounts of time. One week is long enough to extract most of the fruit flavors, but not prolong the batch interminably. If you want to get the most out of your fruit, let it sit longer. Keep in mind, however, that flavor extraction decreases over time. Letting the fruit sit for two weeks will not give you twice as much fruit flavor as letting it sit for one week.

After secondary fermentation with the fruit, siphon the beer away from the fruit solids into a keg or bottling bucket. You may want to use a sanitized kitchen strainer to remove floating fruit solids before racking. Bottle or keg the beer as you usually do.
 
I make a raspberry ale that is always a big hit. It is a simple recipe that is cheap to make.

It uses 6.6 lbs of Briess Pilsen LME 1 ounce of striesslspalt (spelling) hop pellets, one packet of safeAle 05 yeast, and 4 ounces of a raspberry flavoring available from most homebrew shops/sites.

Boil LME and hops for about 45 minutes in 2 gallons of water. Chill. Add to fermenter and top off to make 5 gallons. When the wort is cool enough, pitch your yeast. Add raspberry flavoring at bottling time. Bottle and condition beer as normal.

This beer is a favorite of friends and family, and I see no reason why you couldn't substitute fresh raspberries for the flavor extract following the directions given above.

Have fun, and make a good beer!
 
Second question- If I am able to add fresh raspberries, how to I pasturize them? If I boil then in water wont they just turn to mush? I've seen pictures of fresh, whole raspberries in a carboy. Please help. As always, thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

Don't bother. There's enough yeast to out-compete whatever microbes you're adding, and there's enough alcohol to further inhibit them. Just rack onto the raspberries and leave em be for a 3 weeks to a month.

Or, if you're really nervous about it, dunk them in starsan for 30 seconds.
 
Raspberries don't give near as much flavor as the extract does. I've done a couple raspberry beers with both, and a cherry porter with only cherries, and a blueberry beer with only extract. All the beers with extract came out better. Plus using real fruit is a pain. Between pasteurization, and racking without getting fruit chunks in your beer, it's too much hassle to be worth it
 
Raspberries don't give near as much flavor as the extract does. I've done a couple raspberry beers with both, and a cherry porter with only cherries, and a blueberry beer with only extract. All the beers with extract came out better. Plus using real fruit is a pain. Between pasteurization, and racking without getting fruit chunks in your beer, it's too much hassle to be worth it

Thanks for all your suggestions and help. So I guess I still need a few questions answered.. If I order a kit that comes with fruit extract, can I leave the extract out and just use fresh fruit during secondary? I dont see why not but just want to double check. Also, I kinda want to use fresh fruit but didnt want to have to mash the fruit down to pasturize it, I just wanted whole fruit to float on top. You guys really think it would be okay to add fruit to secondary without pasturizing them? I guess I'll have to find out..

One last thing to those who have brewed and drank fruit beers with both extract flavoring and fresh fruit... which do you suggest is better tasting. I've read on this site that some people think the extract give the beer a "cough syrup" flavor and what not.. Let me know from your past experiances.
 
Thanks for all your suggestions and help. So I guess I still need a few questions answered.. If I order a kit that comes with fruit extract, can I leave the extract out and just use fresh fruit during secondary? I dont see why not but just want to double check. Also, I kinda want to use fresh fruit but didnt want to have to mash the fruit down to pasturize it, I just wanted whole fruit to float on top. You guys really think it would be okay to add fruit to secondary without pasturizing them? I guess I'll have to find out..

One last thing to those who have brewed and drank fruit beers with both extract flavoring and fresh fruit... which do you suggest is better tasting. I've read on this site that some people think the extract give the beer a "cough syrup" flavor and what not.. Let me know from your past experiances.


These questions were already answered in this thread :).....

1'st 2 questions answers follow.

taken from byo. http://www.byo.com/stories/recipes/article/indices/38-ingredients/683-fruit-brew-part-2-techniques

For most fruits, the best time to add them is in secondary fermentation. When added at this time, the fruits are not subjected to heat, their flavors do not end up tasting cooked and their aromas are not lost. The drawback, of course, is that adding fruits in the secondary fermenter runs the risk of contaminating the beer. However, green beer generally has enough alcohol and a pH low enough to discourage the growth of contaminating organisms.

And last questions answer

Raspberries don't give near as much flavor as the extract does. I've done a couple raspberry beers with both, and a cherry porter with only cherries, and a blueberry beer with only extract. All the beers with extract came out better. Plus using real fruit is a pain. Between pasteurization, and racking without getting fruit chunks in your beer, it's too much hassle to be worth it




I have not used fresh fruit in my raspberry ale but can say with confidence that the extract didn't ever remind me of cough syrup..... there is just a subtle raspberry aftertaste to the beer.
 
There was a pretty good episode on the Jamil Show where Jamil talked about making fruit beers. Someone linked to it in a similar thread. I listened to it and found it very informative. Here's a link.
 
So I have been thinking and I think im going to try a little of both.. add half the extract flavoring and add a half batch of fresh raspberries in the secondary. Well see what happens???
 
Good luck!

I made an ill-fated batch of hefeweizen using brewcraft extracts, and they didn't turn out well... I split my batch, so I tried the mango, cherry and raspberry extracts. Generally speaking, I could smell the extract, but not really taste it and it was kind of artificial tasting. However, I left some hefeweizen un-fruited, and it was still fairly bad, so I did something wrong when making it.

I think I've heard that Jamil Show episode, and they make the contention that the Oregon Fruit Purees are the best thing to use.
 
If you want to pasteurize the fruit, Just put fruit in some warm water and heat to around 175, but don't let it get over that or you'll have a pectin problem. Add the entire mix to primary or secondary. I agree with everyone else on the extract, but I am still planning a POM beer with real juice.
 
If you want to pasteurize the fruit, Just put fruit in some warm water and heat to around 175, but don't let it get over that or you'll have a pectin problem. Add the entire mix to primary or secondary. I agree with everyone else on the extract, but I am still planning a POM beer with real juice.

Wont this make the raspberries "mush" and wont this make racking more difficult as well as add a bunch of puree and seeds to my bottles. I was looking for a way to sanatize the fruit without breaking the fruit down into mush or a puree (i want to put whole berries in the carboy). People have said not to worry about it, just freeze them, thaw them and throw them in.. I think im gonna risk it and try it that way.
 
That's what I was going to suggest. I have done this with raspberries multiple times, and currents this past fall. Freezing and thawing will break down the barriers holding in the juice, without totally breaking down the fruit. You will keep most of the solid part of the berry intact, but release alot of flavor, reducing the "mush". Go for it.
 
I placed 2kg frozen berries in a cheesecloth, pour boiling water over, add to primary. Great results fo a 5gallon batch
 
Wont this make the raspberries "mush" and wont this make racking more difficult as well as add a bunch of puree and seeds to my bottles. I was looking for a way to sanatize the fruit without breaking the fruit down into mush or a puree (i want to put whole berries in the carboy). People have said not to worry about it, just freeze them, thaw them and throw them in.. I think im gonna risk it and try it that way.

If you do that, I would put them in after fermentation has taken a firm hold to reduce risk of infection, but most likely you will get good beer either way.
 
Wont this make the raspberries "mush" and wont this make racking more difficult as well as add a bunch of puree and seeds to my bottles. I was looking for a way to sanatize the fruit without breaking the fruit down into mush or a puree (i want to put whole berries in the carboy). People have said not to worry about it, just freeze them, thaw them and throw them in.. I think im gonna risk it and try it that way.

The yeast is going to break down the fruit into mush anyway. The seeds and "mush" will settle to the bottom, rack off the top of it. Strain it if you feel strongly about it, or do a tertiary if you're really worried about a stray seed.
 
Thanks for all your suggestions and advice.. I appreciate it. Its sites like this that make home brewing fun. I have a raspberry wheat kit on order right now from AHB and should get it within a week. The kit comes with a raspberry extract but I think im going to leave that out and just use fresh fruit. Ive heard both good and bad things about fruit extract and feel that fresh with get be a better flavor. Thanks again guys!
 
I would recommend the Oregon canned fruit purees http://www.oregonfruit.com/of.pl?pg=cp over either the extract or fresh fruits. They taste much better and give a more "real" fruit flavor than the extract, are already sterile so no chance of infection, and will provide a much more consistent and predictable result than fresh fruit.

Not to mention they are made with the highest quality fruits. Fresh fruit is rarely sold at its freshest or tastiest. It often has to be picked and shipped slightly green whereas the canned fruits are usually picked and canned within hours and at their best tasting.

NYCHomebrewer
 
Thanks for all your suggestions and advice.. I appreciate it. Its sites like this that make home brewing fun. I have a raspberry wheat kit on order right now from AHB and should get it within a week. The kit comes with a raspberry extract but I think im going to leave that out and just use fresh fruit. Ive heard both good and bad things about fruit extract and feel that fresh with get be a better flavor. Thanks again guys!

If I may make a late suggestion, I would definitely recommend dividing your batch up and using fruit preserves in one and extract in the other. You will never really know the difference each produces without sampling both. And if you like fruit beer and plan on making a lot of them over your career as a homebrewer, it will really pay off to know which you like better and why.

I personally am much more in favor of extract, but not because of the resulting flavor. I actually have done it both ways and I completely believe that both can provide wonderful fruit flavor. However, extract is much easier to use (simply add to the beer at bottling/kegging time) and also removes the need for a secondary. No secondary means one less chance of contamination or oxidation when racking. Just leave it on the primary until you're ready to bottle/keg and then add the extract. Easy.

I used to think preserves were the only way to go, then I found out that my favorite fruit beer (magic hat #9) is made with apricot extract so I gave it a try. Turned out great and now extract is all I use. Also, it's a lot cheaper!
 
I would recommend the Oregon canned fruit purees http://www.oregonfruit.com/of.pl?pg=cp over either the extract or fresh fruits. They taste much better and give a more "real" fruit flavor than the extract, are already sterile so no chance of infection, and will provide a much more consistent and predictable result than fresh fruit.

Not to mention they are made with the highest quality fruits. Fresh fruit is rarely sold at its freshest or tastiest. It often has to be picked and shipped slightly green whereas the canned fruits are usually picked and canned within hours and at their best tasting.

NYCHomebrewer

So i looked online about this product and it seems like the can fruit has some added juice and sugars.. kinda like a syrup I guess you could say. How did you use this when making beer? Did you add the fruit, as well as the syrup in the can straight to the carboy or did you was the fruit from the syrup and then add the fruit. It seems to me that all the extra sugar in the syrup might not be food.. but Im a noob, so I am probably wrong. Let me know...
 
The extracts are ok, and depending on the beer, can be more than adequate. I have just found that in fruit forward beers, the purees give a cleaner, tastier and more fresh fruit flavor.

And yes, there are some added sugars in them. You can't just add them right before bottling like you probably can with the extract. They really need time to ferment out. I've added them in the boil, the primary and the secondary and they act about like you would expect. You get less flavor out of them in the boil than you do the primary; and less flavor in the primary than in the secondary. So add them where you think they will most accentuate your style or beer.

I'm very wary of adding fresh berries (especially raspberries, blackberries and the like) to even a secondary without sterilizing them somehow. Just washing or rinsing them doesn't cut it. they are covered in wild yeasts and you are just asking for a brettanomyces infection. Which might taste great depending on the beer, but not so much if you aren't planning for it.
 
NYC... I guess my question was not answered. I appreciate your advice and input however.. Can you explain to me how I should use the Oregon Fruit if I wanted to add it to my secondary. Should I get rid of the excess syrup in the can? ect..
 
No, add it all. The syrup has been cooked with the fruit and is extremely flavorful. The oregon ones are just particularly high quality, no preservatives etc. Cheaper brands are meh...
 

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