Random Beer Thoughts

[djben]

I just take pleasure in every possible thing that could be a detractor to JWB.

I know, it's a theme here I try to ignore

This article came out today with quotes from both Wynwood and JWB.

http://goodbeerhunting.com/sightlin...lot-ab-and-others-create-a-microcosm-in-miami

 

[trickytunadicky]

I amended my post.

I'm sorry, did you not want any Schramm's?

 

[BadJustin]

I'm sorry, did you not want any Schramm's?

I'll drive right back out there and wait for you at BA. You're bound to show up. As much as I hated it, I want to do it again right, like with nothing to do but hang out. Bet it would be more funner.



Yes I spelled that wrong on purpose, grammar folks.

 

[trickytunadicky]

I'll drive right back out there and wait for you at BA. You're bound to show up. As much as I hated it, I want to do it again right, like with nothing to do but hang out. Bet it would be more funner.



Yes I spelled that wrong on purpose, grammar folks.

You see this week's BOTW?

 

[boogercrack]

Awesome. I thought it had a very clean Yuzu flavor and I thought the US version would have some ****** smirnoff ice syrupy lemon lime flavor that has to be choked down. Srs, no need to adulterate.

Srs, no need to alliterate

 

[BadJustin]

You see this week's BOTW?

The mushroom one? Yaaaaaaaassss.

 

[lb304854]

As much as I hated it

You mean all of the driving sapped your will? I did not see that coming.

 

[Gene1]

Breweries overcharging for low-gravity, gently-hopped beer styles fills me with rage.
$14 for a four-pack of kölsch.
Triggered.

 

[reverseapachemaster1]

Breweries overcharging for low-gravity, gently-hopped beer styles fills me with rage.
$14 for a four-pack of kölsch.
Triggered.

Before I saw the pic I expected this to be a canning of zero IBU IPA.

 

[Lutter]

Breweries overcharging for low-gravity, gently-hopped beer styles fills me with rage.
$14 for a four-pack of kölsch.
Triggered.

My dad picked up a 4-pack of Florida Keys Brewing 16oz cans of one of their low gravity Wheat beers a month or two ago... $20/4-pack.

What is this? Trillium pricing?

 

[mvl339]

Breweries overcharging for low-gravity, gently-hopped beer styles fills me with rage.
$14 for a four-pack of kölsch.
Triggered.

i don't remember how much boogie board stuntz was but it was worth it

 

[WhalezB4Rarez]

Have any breweries commented on these high 4 pack prices? It's obviously a slippery slope or a rising tide or **** I don't know. But Heady Topper is $12.50+tax per four pack from the brewery. How can other breweries justify gouging their customers? $20/4-pack is essentially the same price as getting a pint of said beer served to you at a bar. Is that the justification? If the bar can charge you $5 a pint so can we?

 

[lazerviking]

Have any breweries commented on these high 4 pack prices? It's obviously a slippery slope or a rising tide or **** I don't know. But Heady Topper is $12.50+tax per four pack from the brewery. How can other breweries justify gouging their customers? $20/4-pack is essentially the same price as getting a pint of said beer served to you at a bar. Is that the justification? If the bar can charge you $5 a pint so can we?

It's not gouging when hundreds of neckbeards line up week after week, year after year, to purchase tall boys knowing full well the price of the product. I don't blame the breweries one bit, but rather the consumers who decide to pay for the cans. If I had a machine to print money I'd do it too.

 

[stupac2]

It's not gouging when hundreds of neckbeards line up week after week, year after year, to purchase tall boys knowing full well the price of the product. I don't blame the breweries one bit, but rather the consumers who decide to pay for the cans. If I had a machine to print money I'd do it too.

Exactly. I don't begrudge anyone doing this, I just don't buy their **** because it's generally not worth that.

 

[jwazzy]

Have any breweries commented on these high 4 pack prices? It's obviously a slippery slope or a rising tide or **** I don't know. But Heady Topper is $12.50+tax per four pack from the brewery. How can other breweries justify gouging their customers? $20/4-pack is essentially the same price as getting a pint of said beer served to you at a bar. Is that the justification? If the bar can charge you $5 a pint so can we?

People are paying these prices en masse. Some people are paying far beyond these prices to obtain the beers secondhand. A $5 pint at bar in MA is almost nonexistent. Compared to bar prices for what is almost always less than a pint, $20 4 packs are still a deal. If people keep paying these prices and there is a market of people who will pay over these prices, how could breweries justify not charging what they do?

 

[primebeer]

Have any breweries commented on these high 4 pack prices? It's obviously a slippery slope or a rising tide or **** I don't know. But Heady Topper is $12.50+tax per four pack from the brewery. How can other breweries justify gouging their customers? $20/4-pack is essentially the same price as getting a pint of said beer served to you at a bar. Is that the justification? If the bar can charge you $5 a pint so can we?

The prices bake in a lot of extra expenses that these small breweries have that the Alchemist does not have to deal with. Mobile canning costs a **** ton of money, and most of these new breweries are utilizing mobile canning as a stopgap solution before they can afford their own line. Cans with sticker or shrink-wrapped labels are 2-3x more money than a can with printed artwork. A bit counterintuitive, but true. These smaller breweries also typically have smaller brewhouses, which means less output with very similar fixed costs. Not to mention, an established brewery like the Alchemist has been able to forecast their hop contracts for years now whereas most of these new guys are buying on the secondary market at 2-3x premium.

That said, I'm certainly not justifying a $20-22 4-pack, just wanted to explain how the costs of production and packaging for a smaller, newer brewery would be much higher than an established one like the Alchemist, therefore leading to a higher sticker price for their beer.

 

[CITC3120327]

Mobile canning costs a **** ton of money, and most of these new breweries are utilizing mobile canning as a stopgap solution before they can afford their own line

This. The guys doing mobile canning are making a killing. We use a mobile company simply because we do not have enough room for a canning line of our own until the new brewery is built.

 

[primebeer]

People are paying these prices en masse. Some people are paying far beyond these prices to obtain the beers secondhand. A $5 pint at bar in MA is almost nonexistent. Compared to bar prices for what is almost always less than a pint, $20 4 packs are still a deal. If people keep paying these prices and there is a market of people who will pay over these prices, how could breweries justify not charging what they do?

I would argue that it's less about what the market can bear and more about what it costs to produce the beer. Breweries have certainly reacted to some degree with higher pricing, but a simple pricing model will show why a lot of breweries have higher pricing. See my post above.

Out of curiosity, are there established breweries (5+ years in operation, dedicated packaging, printed cans, hop contracts, large brewhouses) that are charging $20+ for a 4-pack? I don't know of any in New England off the top of my head.

 

[mvl339]

Have any breweries commented on these high 4 pack prices? It's obviously a slippery slope or a rising tide or **** I don't know. But Heady Topper is $12.50+tax per four pack from the brewery. How can other breweries justify gouging their customers? $20/4-pack is essentially the same price as getting a pint of said beer served to you at a bar. Is that the justification? If the bar can charge you $5 a pint so can we?

The answer why 9 times out of 10 is location. Cost of materials, rent, taxes, payroll etc. are all impacted by location. Skilled labor is more expensive in cities than rural areas, it all gets factored into the price. people gotta live.

 

[Sam Fu]

See me in Atlanta in August 4 max likes

 

[Gene1]

Pricing to meet the market: Yes. Justifiable by costs: No.

Think about the overhead it takes to get 4 packs or 6 packs to a Whole Foods in Manhattan, the amount of profit baked in for both the brewer and the retailer (and sometimes the distributor), and compare those prices to these prices. Really makes $14 for a 4 pack of kölsch directly out of the tasting room seem that much more insane.

They can of course get what they're asking, and they will sell out, but it doesn't make it suck any less.

 

[FoudreGuy]

I dropped $16 +9% tax on a four pack of Holy Mountain's Three Fates pilsner the other day.

The struggle is real.

 

[WhalezB4Rarez]

It's not gouging when hundreds of neckbeards line up week after week, year after year, to purchase tall boys knowing full well the price of the product. I don't blame the breweries one bit, but rather the consumers who decide to pay for the cans. If I had a machine to print money I'd do it too.

 

[mvl339]

Pricing to meet the market: Yes. Justifiable by costs: No.

Think about the overhead it takes to get 4 packs or 6 packs to a Whole Foods in Manhattan, the amount of profit baked in for both the brewer and the retailer (and sometimes the distributor), and compare those prices to these prices. Really makes $14 for a 4 pack of kölsch directly out of the tasting room seem that much more insane.

They can of course get what they're asking, and they will sell out, but it doesn't make it suck any less.

I don't think it's a fair comparison because breweries are willing to take the hit on retailer/distro cuts because they are getting a big bulk PO. Price A at the brewery can be justified on costs to produce and Price B at Whole Foods can be based on the market. I know Threes brewing for example is the same price to buy at Whole Foods vs the brewery, probably because they came to a consensus that it's a good price to sell at. If LIC could sell you 100 cases of kolsch at once i'm sure you could get it for 10$ a four pack.

 

[NAD1983]

Pricing to meet the market: Yes. Justifiable by costs: No.

Think about the overhead it takes to get 4 packs or 6 packs to a Whole Foods in Manhattan, the amount of profit baked in for both the brewer and the retailer (and sometimes the distributor), and compare those prices to these prices. Really makes $14 for a 4 pack of kölsch directly out of the tasting room seem that much more insane.

They can of course get what they're asking, and they will sell out, but it doesn't make it suck any less.

Playing devil's advocate here... Do you have an issue with HF charging $15 for the same same volume of Helles in a growler?

inb4 lagering takes time and cold storage space

 

[hornydevil]

Pro-Tip: If you don't like that a certain beer that is expensive, buy a less expensive beer, don't bitch about the expensive beer.

 

[GuzzleMcBrew]

Pricing to meet the market: Yes. Justifiable by costs: No.

Think about the overhead it takes to get 4 packs or 6 packs to a Whole Foods in Manhattan, the amount of profit baked in for both the brewer and the retailer (and sometimes the distributor), and compare those prices to these prices. Really makes $14 for a 4 pack of kölsch directly out of the tasting room seem that much more insane.

They can of course get what they're asking, and they will sell out, but it doesn't make it suck any less.

I don't think it's a fair comparison because breweries are willing to take the hit on retailer/distro cuts because they are getting a big bulk PO. Price A at the brewery can be justified on costs to produce and Price B at Whole Foods can be based on the market. I know Threes brewing for example is the same price to buy at Whole Foods vs the brewery, probably because they came to a consensus that it's a good price to sell at. If LIC could sell you 100 cases of kolsch at once i'm sure you could get it for 10$ a four pack.

While there is merit to what you say here, Gene, the logic in the initial quoted post, at least at some level, does a disservice to economies of scale and ignores the different input costs for different breweries, etc, as is stated by mvl339 here. Not that this tells the whole story, just a contention point.

Weight vs 'nickle-and-dime'ing in the skreets.

I agree there is some insanity baked into current beer prices, especially thinking it is all brewers passing along costs and not clearing a sizable margin of profit per unit.

There are so many factors to this economics/psychology/market tolerance conversation that most of our opinions probably leave a lot out.

*this post was lightly ninja edited

 

[primebeer]

While there is merit to what you say here, Gene, the logic in the initial quoted post, at least at some level, does a disservice to economies of scale and ignores the different input costs for different breweries, etc, as is stated by mvl339 here. Not that this tells the whole story, just a contention point.

Weight vs nickle and diming in the skreets.

I agree there is some insanity baked into current beer prices, especially thinking it is all brewers passing along costs and not clearing a sizable margin of profit per unit.

There are so many factors to this economics/psychology/market tolerance conversation that most of our opinions probably leave out a lot.

*this post was lightly ninja edited

It's a combination of a lot of factors for sure. It would be cool if someone wrote a thorough piece on this that tried to cover as many of the factors as possible.

 

[BadJustin]

When discussing operating costs, is it the cool new thing to say they are "baked in"? Asking for a friend. Trying to increase my business and beer lingo in hopes that one day I will be as smart and knowledgeable as hornydevil.

 

[Gene1]

Pro-Tip: If you don't like that a certain beer that is expensive, buy a less expensive beer, don't bitch about the expensive beer.

Or, do both.