Quitting brewing

[rohanski]

In the beginning I used dry for a few batches but it tasted thin? I don't know how to describe it. I'll try boiling all of the water first and if that fails I'll go back to the cave man days.

 

[Alamo_Beer]

Skip boiling all the water and just buy the packaged water at the store...

 

[rohanski]

Point taken. I'm sold.

 

[Buford]

Are you running the AC? One thing that can cause infections is a dirty air filter, blowing nasties back into your house air.

 

[rohanski]

I have turned it off during the cool down period but I have one of those high fulootin 4" thick merv8 Honeywell filters. They ain't cheap.

 

[Philip1993]

Point taken. I'm sold.

Don't forget to report back if it helps or not. Also, be sure and super-sanitize all your gear to kill any leftover bugs from the past brews.

 

[rohanski]

What I'm going to do is give the primary a good soaking in clorox and use bottled water. If this fixes it I'll have to have a party. I might also need to put a sign on that water machine.

Thanks guys for all of the help. Ya'll can talk a person back from the edge.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Heck if the water testing is free collect a sample in a sanitzed bottle and see if its infected.

Is your household tap water chlorinated? It might be better than the stuff from the machine.

I buy wal-mart water. The spring water. Its good at $0.58 each.

You can try your tap water and do a full boil.

Fill your airlocks with vodka.

I wish you the best

 

[Schlenkerla]

You can get at your local home improvement store. ~$10

http://prolabinc.com/products.asp?kit=bacteria

 

[Alamo_Beer]

Who's Boozin Susan?

 

[Schlenkerla]

SWMBO - That's who...

 

[TheJadedDog]

I know I am late to the party on this, but I would change one variable with each brew to isolate the problem. First try doing everything as normal but with different water. Still infected, then it's not the water, move on to some other possible source of contamination, and so on...

One thing you mentioned was that you are using an immersion chiller, any chance you have leak there? How well are you cleaning and sanitizing the chiller? (There was a guy at my brew shop who was marvelling at how clean his chiller looks when he takes it out of the wort, guess he's not thinking about how dirty that means it is on the way in!)


Oh and Boston Brewer - This is an extreme case, infections are not as common as they seem, get thee brewing!

 

[rohanski]

Jadad dog

I thought of leaks but I haven't checked yet. The strangest thin is that I got 2 good batches between the bad ones. My chiller is not easy to clean because it a coil within a coil and wound tight with no spaces. I made when I was a noobie and didn't think or even know it would build up crud on it. I need to make a new one. I occasionally clean it with one step. If it goes into the boil for 15 min would it matter if it had some crap left on it?

 

[jdoiv]

I would also suggest changing water sources. Those machines are nasty.

If you haven't yet, I would replace all hoses and plastic in your brewery. Hose and racking canes are cheap. 8 batches spoiled isn't. Also, I would cut out using a secondary. If it is airborne, then you'll have one less chance for it to get infected.

Also, clean that chiller. Drop it in a solution of Pbw or Oxyclean and let it soak. Then rinse and soak in a vinegar solution for a short period of time. Rinse, then soak in star san.

Whatever you do, don't give up. You can beat this thing.

 

[rohanski]

Lately it never makes it to the secondary. The only thing it touches after the boil is a funnel (soaked in starsan) and the carboy. I have one in the primary which I am 95% sure is bad. It smells like the last really bad one. I feel like this is like beer cancer and I need chemo.
I appreciate all of the help from everyone. It keeps me pumped.

 

[HarvInSTL]

It would help if you described the infections you had so that we can try and determine what you were infected with.

 

[Trencher]

This really sounds like something in the air. You could take all your gear to a buddy's house and follow your normal procedure, minus the questionable water. If you can get through primary okay there then it's probably your house.

Man, I thought I was discouraged after a few batches fermented too warm... hope you find the problem.

 

[rohanski]

Daveyboy sent be some info on how to figure it out. It appears to be brett and pedio as it is both sour and has the bandaid taste. It also keeps bubbling and has a shiny slime over bubbles that I thought was krausen. I read that brett is very hard to get rid of and some wineries that get it use it as part of the wines character. I find this wierd but hey I don't drink wine. Appearantly wood is a problem, and most of my house has wood ceilings.

 

[srm775]

If you haven't yet, I would replace all hoses and plastic in your brewery. Hose and racking canes are cheap. 8 batches spoiled isn't. Also, I would cut out using a secondary. If it is airborne, then you'll have one less chance for it to get infected.

This is the first thing I would do. Actually I fairly routinely change out my hose (every 5-10 batches) just to avoid an infection.

Second, switch water. If you're on a municiple/public water source, it's probably cleaner than the water you're getting from the store.

Third, I would venture your pets. I've never had an infection and I'm pretty sloppy with my sanitation, but I don't have pets. I've speculated before that of most people that suffer from frequent/periodic infections, the onle common thread would be pets. This doesn't mean that all people that have pets get infections, but ...

Also, clean that chiller. Drop it in a solution of Pbw or Oxyclean and let it soak. Then rinse and soak in a vinegar solution for a short period of time. Rinse, then soak in star san.

It wouldn't hurt anything, but if you're dropping it in for the last 15 min. of the boil, then you probably don't need to. I've never once scrubbed my chiller. All I do is rinse the hops/trub off after and rinse the dust off before.

 

[rohanski]

I can't use my water because I'm on a well and I have a holding tank.

 

[Rhoobarb]

... Third, I would venture your pets. ...

A bit : on the surface, you'd think so. But many animals are probably cleaner than we are! I've had a cat for as long as I've been brewing and I know other brewers who have pets. And we've been either infection free or no more or less susceptible than anyone else.

Look at how fifthy babies and toddlers are with their snotty noses, poopy diapers and all the godawful diseases they bring home from those concentration camps they call "preschools". Yet, people don't banish their precious little Emily and Joshua from the brew room, do they?

No, as others have posted, I'm betting this is either something wrong in the sanitation process or the water - particularly if using top-off water. As an experiment, I'd boil all your water next brew session and see if that solves the problem.

FWIW, I rarely if ever have to "clean" my immersion chiller. Drop it into the boiling wort with at least 15 mins. left in the boil and that will sanitize it. When done, I fill a bucket with some of the circulated water from the IC, then drop the IC in for a quick soak after the wort has been siphoned. That's it!

 

[srm775]

A bit : on the surface, you'd think so. But many animals are probably cleaner than we are! I've had a cat for as long as I've been brewing and I know other brewers who have pets. And we've been either infection free or no more or less susceptible than anyone else.

Still

I don't know about you, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that my favorite thing in the world isn't eating cat/deer crap like I've seen with EVERY dog then licking my crouch (well, ok that parts true). Now, kids are a different story and if he had mentioned he was letting little petri dishes help him then I would have pointed out that that was his problem.

I just meant that of the people I've seen that had infections and/or periodic infections, one common element was pets.

 

[Rhoobarb]

... then licking my crouch (well, ok that parts true). ...

Got a laugh out of that! Since it's never happened to me, I'd be curous if it has others (with pets). Maybe I'll start a separate thread with a poll on this subject!

 

[JnJ]

I know I am late to the party on this, but I would change one variable with each brew to isolate the problem. First try doing everything as normal but with different water. Still infected, then it's not the water, move on to some other possible source of contamination, and so on...

One thing you mentioned was that you are using an immersion chiller, any chance you have leak there? How well are you cleaning and sanitizing the chiller? (There was a guy at my brew shop who was marvelling at how clean his chiller looks when he takes it out of the wort, guess he's not thinking about how dirty that means it is on the way in!)


Oh and Boston Brewer - This is an extreme case, infections are not as common as they seem, get thee brewing!

I don't think you need to sanitize the IC, just clean it, putting it in the wort while it is boiling will sanitze it.

 

[Special Ed]

I troubleshoot process/instrument problems in the medical diagnostic/pharma industry and contamination is a common problem in these laboratories. As other's have pointed out, the water source is a great place to start, however I thought I would offer some other advice.

Whenever folks in this field are convinced a problem is caused by contamination and they just haven't found the source, or been able to kill the bug causing the issue, it usually turns out to be something else. Inevitably, after someone (who hasn't learned this lesson yet) is completely frustrated, gives up, and calls for help; someone else comes in and looks over the entire process with an unbiased view, points out the problem immediately, and it has nothing to do with contamination.

My point is, take a step back and consider all possible causes of these symptoms. Pitching/Fermentation temps? Residual sanitizer?

 

[surfbrewer]

Like someone else stated previously, I have had batches that were fermented way to warm and have ended up with flavors that I thought were infections for sure. Ends up it was just fermentation temperature. What temps are you fermenting at?

Also, I have been using vending machine water for years without any problems. Even if the water did have some form of bacteria, wouldn't your boil take care of anything that might be in there? Just my thoughts on the matter.

Good luck with figuring out the problem and stick with it.

Cheers

 

[BierMuncher]

As a newbie yet to do my first brew, how common is infection? I have read Palmer's book and Papazian's, and it seems as if you make sure everything is clean and sanitized, you shouldn't have any problems.

Stories like this one (I feel terrible for you, man!) almost make me scared to brew, despite the RDWHAHB mantra...

Sorry if this is a hijack.

Don't be put off.

I've done over 300 gallons this year alone and had one bad batch. My fault. Tried to use a yeast that sat out too long.

Infections are much more rare than legend holds.

In this case, I'd recommend getting to the simplest of scenarios. Use some hot mild bleach solution to clean everything (I use bleach)...put together a simple recipe...do a full boil...chill your wort as quickly as you can..and pitch a dry ( nottingham) yeast.

Get back to basics.

 

[rohanski]

Fermentation temps around 73. I doo DME so I don't boil all of my water. The machines worked great for the first 6 to 8 months and I recall they changed them with some shiney new ones. I can just picture the ultraviolet light inside just flickering.

 

[D*Bo]

A full boil might not be a bad idea if you can facilitate the larger pot.
Better hop utilization, clearer product, and cleaner taste.

A hot vinigar soak will help clean up that copper. I'll run hot vinigar thru my CFC from timt to time.

 

[PseudoChef]

Have all of them fermented around 73? I'd really try bringing that down into the mid to high 60s. Try a big tub full of water supplemented with some frozen water bottles, or frozen 1/2 gal juice containers.

You can get a tub at a hardware store for around $10.