Questions on RIMS build

[HangLoose]

You definitely don't need both the LED and a pilot light, but it could help with trouble shooting. It's just more information.

You show the LED wired correctly.

I like to use a regular outlets because they're cheap, safe, and convenient. That way everything just plugs and unplugs. Simple. All of the ground wires would join with the green wire as you say, ground is shown on a schematic as that upside down triangle of smaller and smaller lines. Their path is often omitted just to simplify the drawing. The ground is really just a redundant neutral wire (the negative, white wire), it provides a second (emergency) path to ground to hopefully stop you from becoming that path (ouch!). That's why you want anything with a hot wire running to it to have a ground wire running to it as well, safety first.

All of your switches, the heating element, and half of the SSR are high voltage (120v AC). We could talk about the current but we're not (the heating element at 12 amps is high current, a pilot light at less than.25 amp is low current). The PID output to the SSR (the input into the SSR), the LED, and the thermocouple leads are all low voltage (~5 volts DC). High voltage could kill you as well as any low voltage equipment it touches. Low voltage will not hurt you but your static electricity could hurt it!

I like to wire the power to the pump from the same box so that the heating element cannot be powered unless the pump is running. This just might save your heating element. Plus its nice to have an on off switch for the pump.

 

[HangLoose]

Oh BTW I guess your PID sees 120v on pins 1 and 2 as power in. I don't know anything about PIDs actually! I built my own with a Picaxe micro controller and a LCD screen I had laying around. For what its worth.

 

[bmurph]

First off thanks for all your help so far; I would be lost without somebody to explain all this stuff. And I was thinking of using pigtail connections to join my wires, but is there a better/neater/safer method you may have used?

 

[HangLoose]

I tend to favor run of the mill crimp connectors. I also often use crimp on pig tail connectors (almost like a crimp on wire nut). You can use all sorts of things really. Wire nuts are fine. I would use whatever you are most comfortable with. No worries. One thing I really like to do is after I have everything full finalized, I hot glue the wires in place. This saves so many head aches you can't believe it.

 

[bmurph]

Ok yeah I was planning on keeping it neat. I think just a few more questions and I should be good.

How did you connect your ground wire to the RIMS tube? Is soldering an option?

The SSR is mostly cased in plastic but the bottom is metal; will that need a ground?

Will I need to insulate the terminals on my heating element and switches? How do I do this?

And is it a bad idea to put the RIMS tube inside the toolbox? A member of the club I belong to does this without problems apparently, but I feel like it would get hot in there.

 

[HangLoose]

Soldering is an option for grounding your RIMS tube but IMO it isn't worth the trouble. I was able to just put the ground wire under a hose clamp and clamp it on, it looks nicer than it sounds. To insulate the heating element wires I got a large pvc pipe cap, drilled a hole in the end so the wire could go in and force threaded it over the heating element. Then I sealed it with silicone calk. There is no need to ground your ssr because you are never going to touch it. Same with insulating the wires on your switches, you should ground your switches, ans waterproof switch boots would be a good idea too. You could put your RIMS tube where ever you like, I insulated mine and I strap it in place next to my mash tun. It should be fine in a tool box.

 

[bmurph]

So I'm finally sitting down to wire all this together, and I'm currently stuck on the heating element. No instructions as to polarity, no markings on the element itself. Do these devices usually have a polarity?

Here is the one I'm using.
http://bostonheatingsupply.com/SP10868LH.aspx

 

[mux]

Not if It's AC.

 

[bmurph]

And that depends on the power source not the device right?

 

[HangLoose]

There is no marking because it doesn't matter. connect one lug to the hot/black/power wire from your ssr and one lug to the neutral/white/common.

 

[bmurph]

I finished with the wiring, and had an electrical engineer check the connections before I plugged it in. I thought that the lighted rocker switches I used would go off in the off position, but they both light up in either position. Flipping the one to the PID causes it to go on and off as expected, and the other that goes to the SSR is wired the same way, yet the switch lights never go off. The light on the SSR goes off only when the PID is switched off. I didn't have it plugged in for more than a few seconds, but I wasn't sure if the heating element was drawing power when it shouldn't have been. Do I have anything to worry about here?

 

[HangLoose]

I finished with the wiring, and had an electrical engineer check the connections before I plugged it in. I thought that the lighted rocker switches I used would go off in the off position, but they both light up in either position. Flipping the one to the PID causes it to go on and off as expected, and the other that goes to the SSR is wired the same way, yet the switch lights never go off. The light on the SSR goes off only when the PID is switched off. I didn't have it plugged in for more than a few seconds, but I wasn't sure if the heating element was drawing power when it shouldn't have been. Do I have anything to worry about here?

Well something isn't right... The switches can probably be wired either way: always hot or switched. This sounds like do big deal. maybe you could tell me that terminals the switches have or the make and model?
As far as the ssr is concerned, who's to say? Is the PID calling for heating? How is it set? This could be a bad thing or could all be fine.

 

[bmurph]

These are the switches I used.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3118987&filterName=Type&filterValue=SPST

Each switch has 3 terminals to which I connected crimp-on connectors, labeled 1, 2, and 3. Terminal 3 is a bronzish color (the other two are silver) and I used that for ground. Terminal 2 is connected to the power source and 1 goes to my devices (one switch connected to the PID, and another to the SSR and heating element).

I followed the diagram on this page: http://www.oznium.com/forum/topic18145

 

[bmurph]

And i havent messed with the PID yet to set it for my purposes. I guess I will disconnect the SSR switch first to be sure I'm not running the heating element dry.

 

[bmurph]

I disconnected the switch to the SSR and plugged the whole system in. The SV was set at 800 degrees F (default setting), so of course the PID wanted to switch on the SSR. Apparently the SSR light goes on when the PID tells it to, regardless of whether the side with the heating element draws power or not. And the main switch clearly controls the PID as it should (it turns on and off), only the light in the switch is lit no matter what. I believe I have it wired correctly, and I was just mistaken about which lights would be on and when. So should I add that LED to tell me exactly when the heating element powers on and off?

 

[stlbeer]

I disconnected the switch to the SSR and plugged the whole system in. The SV was set at 800 degrees F (default setting), so of course the PID wanted to switch on the SSR. Apparently the SSR light goes on when the PID tells it to, regardless of whether the side with the heating element draws power or not.

Correct. The PID controls the SSR and when the Present Value (PV) is below the Set Value (SV) and the PID is set for HEAT, then the control circuit activates the SSR (in your case). When I setup my RIMS controller, I was controlling an outlet that my RIMS heater plugged into. The SSR pilot light comes on regardless of an element being plugged in or not. It shows that the outlet is hot when the light is on. I think that's what you are most interested in.

And the main switch clearly controls the PID as it should (it turns on and off), only the light in the switch is lit no matter what. I believe I have it wired correctly, and I was just mistaken about which lights would be on and when. So should I add that LED to tell me exactly when the heating element powers on and off?

You don't really need one. Is there an OUT LED on the PID? If so then you could use that as your indicator. If the RIMS heater is plugged in, then the element is heating when the light is on.

 

[bmurph]

So I figured out my problem, only to create a much bigger one.

I had the polarity of my switches reversed; a guy at Radioshack pointed that out and we got the switch lights to go off in the off position. I took the RIMS home for a test run with hot water, and it worked perfectly. I realize now that the OUT LED on the PID will tell me what I need to know, as well as the light on the SSR.

Everything was going smoothly and I was just about to shut it off, then the loose hose going back to the cooler decided to wiggle free and flood my kitchen; which would have been no big deal (not the first time it happened), but one squirt got into the toolbox and got my wires all wet (so stupid). I immediately switched everything off, unplugged everything, then gave myself a good kick in the a**. Luckily I didn't SEE any water on the SSR or PID, and the heating element terminals are encased inside a PVC pipe cap with only a small hole for the wires to exit; pretty sure no water got in there. My switch terminals are wrapped in electrical tape, and I didn't see any drops on them anyway, so I think they're safe. What worries me most are the places I joined wires with wire nuts, (splitting the hot, joining the neutral, and connecting grounds to the main ground)--I know there was water there.

I feel so stupid for letting this happen, especially after all the time and money I put into the system, and maybe I'm ok, but I just don't know what my next move is. I figure I'll give everything a couple days under a fan to dry out, but I don't know the extent of the damage yet, or how to even figure that out. I need to make sure this thing is safe before I plug it back in...please help...

 

[stlbeer]

Ah - here's a good solution to that problem:

Undo the connections that got wet. It's really the only way to know. And you have to know so just do it. It won't take much time and you will feel more confident once you know.

Don't power it back up until you are certain it's dry, then you can start carefully checking it out.

 

[bmurph]

I unscrewed the wire nuts, and everything was dry, but will I know by looking at the wires if any damage was done? For the most part they look ok, but at the tips where they are twisted together they are not as shiny as before and have taken on a dull gray color--just the tip, mind you. The ground connection has the most gray, and it never had current running through, so maybe they're not damaged and have just taken on a bit of the color of the inside of the wire nut. I think everything's dry, but should I give it another day under the fan to be safe?

 

[stlbeer]

If it's dry then I'd say give it a go, but be prepared to unplug it if something happens. Make sure you are using a GFCI outlet so if anything does short out the circuit will trip. It goes without saying, but I'm going to anyway. Any time you're working with electricity around water you need to use a GFCI circuit. It is there to protect you from electrocution.