Question on upping ABV, LME vs sugar etc.

[justenoughforme]

I typically like abbey ales and belgian beers with high ABV, 8.5% ish.

i'd like to make up my own batch of something similar, but most of the kits i see offer ABV around 5%. can i just supplement with sugar or more LME to increase the final alcohol content ?

will "too much" LME or DME make the beer taste bad ?

thanks guys for your help. i've made two kits and nothing else.

 

[mdindy]

depends on the recipe, you should be able to add some LME/DME to increase the gravity with out ruining the beer.

 

[justenoughforme]

is there much difference between adding sugar, and adding more extract ?


... my real issue is i have tons of six gallon carboys, so i'd like to fortify up a kit to make 6 gallons and 7% instead of 5 gallons at 5%
ie, add two and a half pounds of LME... or is there a better way ?

thanks again

 

[mdindy]

always use extract over sugar for a fuller body with out risking a "cidery" or thin flavor. as for the second question not sure what you are asking, you can make a larger volume with more extract, adding more extract with increase abv. as for how much, you would need to use beersmith or something like it to calculate recipe OG.

 

[solbes]

I think its fine to up the ABV by say 1% on most kits without harming the base recipe. But going from 5% to 8.5% by adding sugar will have very a very noticable effect (not a good one). It will dry it out considerably, make it pretty "thin", and it will have a very noticeable alcohol presence. Belgians are about the only style that might be okay with a small sugar addition though (0.5-1 lb).

For most recipes, if you want to increase the ABV you can add more LME or DME. For additions of more than say a pound, you will likely also need to compensate with extra bittering hops or it will become out of balance.

Also keep in mind the Abbey Belgian ales you like in the 7.5%+ range have likely been aged some before you consume. You may not be too impressed with your homebrew creations at bottling, but with a few months of bottle conditioning, it may turn out great.

 

[justenoughforme]

thank you so much for the help and info.

 

[justenoughforme]

so i need to just make my own recipe rather than fortify up a kit if i want to make 6 gallons of high ABV beer.

that leaves a lot of choices... a lot of math.

 

[ptrack]

Adding straight sugar (corn sugar or something similar) will result in a dryer beer than you would get from adding LME or DME. If you add corn sugar it will get fully fermented by the yeast and leave nothing behind other than more alcohol. Adding LME or DME results in some non-fermentables being left behind and a higher FG. All depends on what you are looking for in your final product.

One word of warning, I have added corn sugar at the end of a boil to a couple of batches and ended up with a bit of a hot alcohol taste in the beer. I think I remember seeing Yooper post something about adding the sugar sometime into primary fermentation to avoid that but I don't recall exactly what was said.

 

[solbes]

But thats where brewing software can help. I think you should start with a basic kit recipe. Look at the BJCP style guidelines. And use brewing software to help craft your own recipes. As a final confirmation, lots of people bounce their ideas of people here in a thread.

http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/

 

[chickypad]

There are lots of recipes in the database - look under Belgian strong ales. Most high gravity Belgians will contain a significant amount of sugar as is appropriate for style, but I agree starting with a high gravity recipe is easier/better than trying to doctor a kit designed for a lower gravity beer. If you need help converting a recipe to extract or partial mash just post it and folks will help. You can then scale the recipe to any batch size (i.e. take 5 gal recipe and multiply by 6/5 to get a 6 gal size, or use software).

 

[ptrack]

You can also take a look in the recipe forum on here and through other recipe resources you can find online like the Beersmith database. You can probably find something to suite your tastes there and pick up what you need from a LHBS or some shop online.

 

[justenoughforme]

i've made two boomchugalug kits.

and i like them, but they only yield about 4 gallons. and seem more expensive (the trappist dubbel is anyway).

::edit read all replies...::

okay so i can look around for a recipe like what i want, and use amazon to buy each ingredient. i'll then compare that to buying two boomchugalug kits.

 

[ptrack]

Depending on where you are the easiest place to buy from is a homebrew supply shop near you. This gives you the benefit of talking to some experienced brewers who can help you get what you need and maybe give you some tips or advice on your recipe and brewing process. Other options are websites like Northern Brewer, Midwest Supply, Austin Homebrew and many other websites to get the ingredients you need.

 

[spongebob2]

Check out the can kits from Brewferm. They only make 2 1/2 - 3 gallons & are $22 a kit but you can make a double batch.
I got the Diablo kit off ebay - buddy loves it but I'm not into Belgians.
They claim 8 percent - mine may be slightly higher. I added 3.3 lb golden lme & 1/2 pound table sugar.

 

[Owly055]

There seems to be a popular "truism" about sugar making a beer "thin" or "dry".......... In fact I don't find this to be the case at all. If you use substitute sugar for DME or grain in an existing recipe...... it will be thinner or drier than the same recipe with just malt. If you add sugar to an existing recipe (not eliminating any malt), it will give you more alcohol without increasing the body. I frequently do this......... because adding malt makes the beer heavier as a result of increasing the amount of unfermentables that malt carries with it.


H.W.

 

[thespiff]

I made a slightly modified version of this and it came out great: http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3028-duvel-clone

I'm about to make it again.

My only modification was to use an even 3LBs (1 can) of Briess Light LME instead of the Coopers LME and 2.4LB of Briess Pilsen DME instead of the Coopers DME. (I bumped up the DME quantity to compensate for the smaller amount of LME.) I also used regular table sugar instead of corn sugar.

I'd be careful about trying to put 6 gallons of a big beer into a 6 gallon carboy. You're probably going to blow the top. Use fermcap and a blowoff tube. You still might blow the top.

 

[dhutchings]

I made a decent Tripel a couple of years ago, I've recently re-brewed it and it's just finishing fermentation up now:

2.5 Gallon boil, 5.5 Gallon batch

4 lbs Light DME
5 lbs Pilsner DME
2 lbs Light Candi Sugar
3 oz Styrian Goldings 90 min
2 oz Tettnanger 60 min
1 oz Fuggles 30 min
1 oz Hallertauer (they sent me this instead of Saaz) 5 min

WLP 530

Predicted OG: 1.080
Predicted FG: 1.020
Predicted ABV: 7.91%
IBU: 34
SRM 4.33

 

[actech]

basic brewing radio just put out a podcast on this subject. They said add sugar part way thru fermentation not dme. Extra malt can leave extra non fermentable sugars that arent wanted. Sugar being fully fermentable wont leave anything. Was a good listen.
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/5/e/f/5ef...33203308&hwt=137e28c9d42ead9c11cdb3c94c52d4d8
mp3 link

 

[HB_in_Subic]

I made this one a few months ago http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/851056.htm and it turned out great. I used M27 Belgian Ale Yeast and it finished at 9.6%. It was the hit of the party last week.

 

[podz]

always use extract over sugar for a fuller body with out risking a "cidery" or thin flavor.

Thin is not a flavour, and the cidery thing is a myth.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=90498


Now, I personally am against using sugar in beer because it's not reinheitsgebot. However, with an all-extract beer, you can not get high ABV without also getting a relatively high final gravity. If you want a lower final gravity, then you have no choice but to use sugar.

You can use this site to calculate your recipe.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/