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HomerT

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40 bucks more for a 10 gallon setup. You might not be doing 10 gallon batches right now, but smart money says that that'll be your next step. Might as well pull the trigger on the bigger setup and save the cash you'll inevitably spend in the future. That way, when you do move up, all you need is a bigger BK. :mug:
 
OK. When buying or building a cooler conversion, what are the advantages/disadvantages to :

A) False bottom vs. manifold design?

B) Round vs. square cooler?

I appreciate the input. I am learning alot, as I thought the above was a good deal, its almost $100 more at NorthernBrewer.com!

-Todd
 
A. No big trade-off between manifold and false bottom in terms of efficiency, but it's a pain to DIY a false bottom. People also use steel braid.

B. None either way.

Things on eBay can get really pricey. People using the buy-now feature are rarely giving you a good price.
 
The issue is that northern brewer is selling you a cooler, and shipping it to you. Even if you are not a DIY-type of guy, just buy a cooler from a reputable local vendor. (Sears, Sporting Goods store, Big Box Retailer) and buy a cooler conversion kit from either NorthernBrewer or BargainFittings.com {a vendor on HBT.} Then you can either make your own Stainless steel braid, like: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/ or just buy a false bottom from Northern Brewer.

You will still save a ton of money.

If you batch sparge, you can do it all with one cooler and not need to buy the second cooler for HLT for fly sparging.

See: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/question-about-batch-sparge-using-cooler-mlt-65144/

These two threads and the people who post to them helped me to do my first All Grain last week.

I spent $16 dollars on a cooler, $31 bucks on hardware from Northern Brewer, and made a stainless steel braid for about $4.50.

I hit my numbers using Bobby_M's no Mash Out, Batch Sparge method and have an All Grain Cream ale fermenting away in the primary.
 
I'd atleast go with the 10 gallon cooler, either rectangular or round. You never know when you want to make a barley wine or even a strong ale. If it were me starting out out I'd use a manifold and not hafta worry about a braid getting "crimped" while trying to batch sparge. But... you do what's best and cost efficient for you. Sometimes experience will out weigh proficiency.
 
HomerT said:
Cool. Good to know.

I know Ebay isn't always the cheapest, but I was comparing that listing to this one:
NORTHERN BREWER: All-Grain Equipment

Seemed similar, but ~$50 cheaper ($75 cheaper for the 10-gallon). But, thats why I came here first. :D
Click to expand...

The Northern Brewer kit looks like it includes brass ball valves and a false bottom vs. plastic spigots and braids. His setup may work just fine and you don't need to spend the extra dollars, but its not comparing apples to apples.
 
do not buy a 5gal MLT. I made this mistake and am now paying for it after one AG batch having to buy a 10gal. Fortunately, I can just switch over my bulkhead and manifold, but I wish I had the insight to get the the 10 gal right off the bat.
 
everyone that said to go with a 10 gallon mash tun I +1 that

other then that IMHO to a couple of your questions

Round or rectangle....
I personally feel a round cooler is more versitile as it gives you a better grain bed depth over a larger range of grain amounts... (OR the square 10 gallon cooler from from colman I think it is)

Square or rectangle coolers are MUCH easier to build an effective manifold for... A round cooler your either using a braided hose and batch sparging or spending the money on a nice false bottom to fly sparge...


I personaly went with a round 10 gallong gott cooler and a false bottom made my own bulkheads(very easy projects) and a big ICE cube cooler for my HLT also easy to build a bulkhead/pickup tube for....


If I was to do it again I would have saved ALOT of money going with the 10 gallon square colman water coolers and building a manifold myself(but they didnt have those nice square 10 gallon water coolers when I built my setup 3 years ago or so :( ) and useing the same icecube I am using now for the HLT


If your a fair hand you should be able to build the setup for under 80 bucks pretty easy with the 10 gallon square colman water cooler and a 48 quart icecube cooler
 
Bottom line is you can build it cheaper than you can buy it period. Now, do you have the time or inclination to build it?
+1 on 10 gal cap.
Round or square coolers are better for fly sparging. Rectangular coolers are cheaper and easier to deal with and work perfectly for batch sparging. SS braid for Batch sparge, Manifold for fly sparge...

What are your long term goals for your system?

I put most of my gear together from items that I had laying around and will not suffer any real loss if I make drastic changes in my system. If you are starting from scratch you may want to decide what your ultimate be-all-end-all brew system is and work towards that end one piece at a time.
 
I bought the exact same 10gal blue set-up from that guy and it works great! did my first AG last weekend with it and everything went well. I love the quick disconnect's he installs on the lines for easy clean-up and storage. We paid $189 for it with free shipping and i'm happy as hell!
 
I think going with a 10 gallon or 40 qt cooler is a mistake unless it is less than $20. You'll never be able to brew much more than a 5 gallon batch in it easily- especially if it is ultra high gravity. My suggestion is to spend just a few $$ more and get a 70qt (17.5 gallon) cooler.

For a kettle you need at least 40qts to do an 5 gallon AG batch without it slopping over the top as the wort expands and begins to foam. Remember you'll be boiling down to the final volume...


My $0.02...
 
Radtek what are you talking about? Its 5 gallon coolers that are hard to do 5 gallon batches with, with a ten gallon cooler you have MORE than enough room for a 5 gallon batch. People do 5 gallon batches with a 5 gallon cooler but struggle with higher gravity batches but 10 gallon is more than enough space for a STRONG high gravity 5 gallon batch.... most people worry that 10 gallons is too big for a 5 gallon batch because half of it is open air and may have temp loss. and 17.5 gallons? You mashing with 30 pounds of grain? and where can you get a 10 gallon for $20 bucks??? Ill buy em ALL. 5 gallons are $40-$50 Ten gallons are $70-$100 WITHOUT the pieces for the mash/lauter tun.
 
Walmart usually has the base model Igloo-ice cube 48qt for $15 or so. I bought 5 of them... I now use a Coleman Extreme 70qt that I got for $30 at Walmart before Thanksgiving. Thank god I did...

You are right. You'll never be able to brew more than a 5 gallon batch or maybe 10g of a Mild. I've squeezed larger stuff out of a 10 gallon but I had to triple-sparge and it was slopping over the top of the tun.

I'm talking options, convenience and ease. If one goes just a bit larger they can still do a 5g batch and if they decide to up production or gravity they can do that too.
 
radtek said:
Walmart usually has the base model Igloo-ice cube 48qt for $15 or so. I bought 5 of them... I now use a Coleman Extreme 70qt that I got for $30 at Walmart before Thanksgiving. Thank god I did...

You are right. You'll never be able to brew more than a 5 gallon batch or maybe 10g of a Mild. I've squeezed larger stuff out of a 10 gallon but I had to triple-sparge and it was slopping over the top of the tun.

I'm talking options, convenience and ease. If one goes just a bit larger they can still do a 5g batch and if they decide to up production or gravity they can do that too.
Click to expand...

Maybe if your batch sparging.... fly sparging gives you ALOT more room hell I did a 5 gallon brew with an OG of 1.068 two weekends ago and used less then 5 gallons of space in my 10 gallon round cooler..... sorry but thats a TOUCH bigger then just a mild.... I could easily do a 10 gallon brew at around 65-68 with room to spare...(Hell I figure your brewing anything over 7% acohol you might want to stick with a 5 gallon batch anyways :) )

and IMHO anything BIGGER then a 10-12 gallon cooler for 5 gallon batches and your not going to get good bed depth on ANY normal beer
 
Yeah I was thinking after I posted that reply "what if that guy is planning on fly-sparging?" I was totally coming from a batch -sparging perspective. I think the jury's still out on the grain-bed depth question with batch-sparging though. I brew 5 gallon batches in a 70qt rectangular cooler... No problems there.

I've never fly-sparged though I think I might try it this year. It wouldn't require much more on my part and I understand the technique and concept. Supposed to get a better eff over-all.
 
I agree it doesn't make any sense to do this if you are going to do 10gal batches. I use a 10gal rubbermaid "home depot special" for mashing. It's pretty huge for 5gal batches, but obviously too small for 10 gal.

I did my second batch the other day and have been batch sparging. You would have no need for the second cooler if you did that. My effeciency on the second brew was outstanding and I'm really happy w/it. If I were trying to go AG and do 5 gal batches, but wanted to maybe to 10 one day I'd probably spend the cash on a big ass brew kettle, and batch sparge w/one cooler to save money. Then when you wanna go big get a bigger cheap cube coolers or maybe a keggle system.

Just my two cents from a newbie.
 
radtek said:
Yeah I was thinking after I posted that reply "what if that guy is planning on fly-sparging?" I was totally coming from a batch -sparging perspective. I think the jury's still out on the grain-bed depth question with batch-sparging though. I brew 5 gallon batches in a 70qt rectangular cooler... No problems there.

I've never fly-sparged though I think I might try it this year. It wouldn't require much more on my part and I understand the technique and concept. Supposed to get a better eff over-all.
Click to expand...


Yup I dont have any experiance batch sparging myself so I cant help out on the whole grainbed depth thing... I would think it would be hard to get it to clear though if your depth was to thin...

all I know is with my round cooler/false bottom and a decent crush I get 80% eff with no effort..... matter of fact I hit 82+ eff this past weekend! I think thats because I did a decoction mashout even though I didnt hit 168 it only got to 163 and I said screwit LOL... I usually dont even mashout just mashin rest and then start the lauter and sparge with 170 degree water and I average 80%..... next brew I am going to try to hit 168 on the grain temps and sparge 170-172 degree water and see what happens
 
The guy was doing 5 gallon batches and Rad said a ten gallon cooler was too small, and he needed 17.5 gallons. That is how that all started. a ten gallon cooler is MORE than enough for a 5 gallon batch, even up to 1.200 SG
 
I'm w/ you on this one Beau, I would feel a bit silly mashing 10 - 12 pounds of grain in a 70 qt. cooler. Probably work ok, just what to do with all that extra space, rent it out?
 
haha thank you... im NOT crazy! Was beginning to wonder what was going on here. All that extra space cant be good for holding temps steady either im guessing.... when 3/4 of the cooler has no hot liquid on it keeping it insulated. i dont know. Well the good part is you wouldnt need a mash paddle, just get a wooden spoon from the kitchen lol
 
radtek said:
I think the jury's still out on the grain-bed depth question with batch-sparging though.
Click to expand...

I don't think so....

radtek said:
I've never fly-sparged though I think I might try it this year. It wouldn't require much more on my part and I understand the technique and concept. Supposed to get a better eff over-all.
Click to expand...

What kind of efficiency are you getting, rad? I'm in the low-mid 80s batch sparging.
 
Denny- I've settled out at 75-76% with my 10g batches. I'm happy with that consistency and quit obsessing that I wasn't always getting in the mid-80's. I'll probably try to tweak the crush just a little bit more. Maybe.

I seem to remember GB depth didn't matter as much with batch-sparging according to a discussion on another forum. There doesn't appear to be a full consensus on it. Another thing not to worry so much about if I'm getting good results- right?

I did have problems with it being too deep in those cube-coolers but I was trying to go full blast in the run-off. Throttling back helps with my current tun. Maybe it would have helped with the cube.

rad
 
radtek said:
I seem to remember GB depth didn't matter as much with batch-sparging according to a discussion on another forum. There doesn't appear to be a full consensus on it. Another thing not to worry so much about if I'm getting good results- right?

I did have problems with it being too deep in those cube-coolers but I was trying to go full blast in the run-off. Throttling back helps with my current tun. Maybe it would have helped with the cube.

rad
Click to expand...

You are correct that grain bed depth is pretty much a non issue with batch sparging. Well, I suppose if you had a 1/2 inch grainbed it might be, but I'm talking real world! Unlike fly sparging, where you're gradually rinsing the grains, since all the sugar is in solution at once you don't have to worry about diffusion through the grain bed. My experience of 345 batches with different grain bed depths bears that out.

What kind of problems did you have with your other cooler? I fond that if I keep the runoff slow through the vorlauf, then open it up wide, it works great for me. But I use a rectangular cooler. I have no love for the ice cubes or and other of the tall coolers with small openings.
 
Well I installed the same diameter tubing I've seen on dennybrew except the braid is a hot-water heater braid. In the Cube I would have terrible compacted beds but I was running it at full blast after setting the bed. When I figured out to throttle it back (50%) in my current setup things became much easier and the compaction virtually disappeared.

The main issues I had with the ice-cube was it's thin walls (heat-loss) and the depth. With a lot of grain in there it was a tremendous PITA to stir and likelihood of a stuck sparge increased. It would compress the braid- solved that with a coil of stiff wire. I schemed on a new and properly insulated rectangular cooler to fit all my present and future needs. Why should I struggle with inadequate equipment? So I made a tiny expenditure (homebrewers evidently hate this) to improve my brewery and ease my experience.

I don't think switching coolers affected my efficiency one bit however. I'm a batch-sparger...!
 
So many people seem to buy coolers becasue of names like "Ice Cube" or "Extreme". For over 10 years, I've used a $13 Rubbermaid rectangluar cooler. It only loses 1 degree over the course of the mash and the large opening makes it so much easier to stir....
 
I use a 10 gallon round cooler from Home Depot as my MLT. It seems to work pretty good. I did a 1.062 beer (5 gallon batch) last weekend and I had plenty of room at the top. Still did not loose any temp for the hour.

I do have one question though, and I appologize if this is hijacking the post. When pouring the Vourloff (sp) back into the batch sparge, how do you all keep from messing with the grain bad? Also, do you stir the grain before starting the first runnings of the sparge? My Process:

Dump water into MLT
Still very well to get all the sugars loose
Let sit 10 minutes
Open valve into pitcher, once clear put to boil kettle.
While draining, pour pitcher back into MLT

Thanks
 
Yep, I don't think we're on the OS.

I prefer it uniform but as long as it isn't too compacted- you can just pour the vorlauf in.

But I do stir it before mash-out on both batches. Makes it a bit easier.
 
jbeauchamp said:
I use a 10 gallon round cooler from Home Depot as my MLT. It seems to work pretty good. I did a 1.062 beer (5 gallon batch) last weekend and I had plenty of room at the top. Still did not loose any temp for the hour.

I do have one question though, and I appologize if this is hijacking the post. When pouring the Vourloff (sp) back into the batch sparge, how do you all keep from messing with the grain bad? Also, do you stir the grain before starting the first runnings of the sparge? My Process:

Dump water into MLT
Still very well to get all the sugars loose
Let sit 10 minutes
Open valve into pitcher, once clear put to boil kettle.
While draining, pour pitcher back into MLT

Thanks
Click to expand...


I use a plastic lid that I float/lay ontop of the grainbed to recirculate my wort onto till it clears..... just pour it onto the lid and it keeps from drilling holes into the grainbed......
 
jbeauchamp said:
I do have one question though, and I appologize if this is hijacking the post. When pouring the Vourloff (sp) back into the batch sparge, how do you all keep from messing with the grain bad? Also, do you stir the grain before starting the first runnings of the sparge? My Process:

Dump water into MLT
Still very well to get all the sugars loose
Let sit 10 minutes
Open valve into pitcher, once clear put to boil kettle.
While draining, pour pitcher back into MLT

Thanks
Click to expand...

First, you're wasting 10 minutes. There's nothing to be gained from waiting. And as long as you pour the vorlauf portion gently back on the top of the grain bed, there's no problem.
 
I have a 5 gallon round cooler with a braid and a 17.5 gallon (70 quart) Coleman Xtreme with a manifold. Small AG batches or partial mash batches I will use the 5 gallon cooler and boil on the stove top, for everything else I use the Coleman 70 which can do up to 35 pounds of grain. Go bigger than you think you need or want, because eventually you will find yourself maxing it out (I've already had one batch that wouldn't fit in my Xtreme 70!).
 

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