Question concerning water

[Teufelhunde]

Sooooo....I have been extract brewing for a couple of years and brew almost exclusively PA's and IPA's. As such, the only thing I have done to my (RO) water is to add a little gypsum, due to the extracts having salts in them.

I ran across a good deal on a Brewzilla ($320 shipped) and am waiting for UPS to (finally) get it to me. The whole thing of water chemistry is way above my head at this time. I am reading and trying to figure it out, but it will take me a while, and it will come slowly. In the mean time, I want to be able to brew decent beer. I have an undersink RO unit that I use for water.

A couple of questions....

1) is all RO water close to the same, or does it (like I expect) vary according to the input water?

2) I'm guessing I should find a lab that will test my water and have a sample done?

3) Any input on a basic load of salts to put in that will (hopefully) be close to use until such testing can be done?

4) Retest yearly? Every two year?

TIA for any input

Lon

 

[BigEd]

Re 1): In theory yes, but in reality it depends on how efficient a system it is and how well it has been maintained.

Re 2): Yes, Ward Labs, Test #W-501 Water Analysis - Ward Laboratories, Inc.

Re 3): until you know what is in your water you will not know what adjustments are required. See #2

Re 4): Depends on the source and if it is influenced by seasonal or other external effects, such as a varying mixture of surface and well waters that can change in ratio or road salt runoff from winter highway treatments.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

I’d start here…

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/
It gives you a quick and easy rule of thumb to quickly get you making good beer while you figure out the more detailed methods.

 

[MHBT]

First thing to focus on is mash ph, get yourself some strips or better a meter, some acid lactic or phosphoric, look at calcium chloride and gypsum as seasoning as if you are cooking a pot of soup, there is a guy named martin on this forum, listen to him dude is a water wizard and has a awesome spreadsheet bru’n water download that

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water (link) is the 'cliff notes' for "A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer".

"Water for Homebrewing" (link) is also a nice starting point. It's a collection of Zymurgy magazine articles and HomeBrew Con presentations.

 

[mabrungard]

A properly operating and maintained RO machines are going to produce somewhat similar water quality, even with differing source water. The RO profile that is included in the Bru'n Water program represents what results from pretty mineralized (but fully softened) raw water. You can expect that the water coming out of your machine to be similar in total dissolved solids and proportion of ions.

The MOST important thing a RO machine owner can have, is a TDS meter. That inexpensive and reliable instrument will quickly tell you if the RO water quality is decreasing (higher TDS). Given the relative consistency of quality from any RO machine and the ability to check TDS at home, there is little need to send a sample off for lab testing. You might get one when you install the machine after its run for several days and its output has stabilized, but I think that another test later is a waste of money.

I feel the most useful salts and acids to have when using RO water are: gypsum, calcium chloride, baking soda, and lactic acid. With those, you can pretty much tailor your water in most directions. Of course, visit the Water Knowledge site to get a decent prospective on why you need to adjust your brewing water and how to do it.

 

[renstyle]

As others have already mentioned, your undersink RO unit's output will vary slightly with the input water chemistry and overall build/maintenance of the system.

Having said that, any way you look at it an RO system <generally> spits out water that the vast majority of people will call "close to the same"

I have these six salts/additions which cover the vast majority of profiles:

Canning Salt (NaCl) - (table salt - must have NO IODINE ADDED! - I use flaked Kosher Sea salt)
Gypsum (CaSO4)
Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)
Epsom Salt (MgSO4)
Baking Soda (NaHCO3)
Chalk (CaCO3)

Generally speaking, you should be able to source Baking Soda, Canning Salt, and possibly Epsom Salt from a retail outlet/supermarket. The other 3 I picked up on Amazon, and were't more than $20 all-in.

I use BrewFather to calculate the water additions to my recipes. I use the RO water profile, and then based on the grain bill will calculate how many grams of each addition to use from above. A gram scale is needed for this, and the budget model at Wally World was just fine.

The other various calculators on the internet do basically the same thing.

EDIT: While I also have a bottle of Phosphoric acid to adjust pH (same effect as Lactic), I have gravitated to using acid malt in my recipes to lower pH, and works fine for me.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have an undersink RO unit that I use for water.

1) is all RO water close to the same, or does it (like I expect) vary according to the input water?

You can get a $10 TDS meter that you drop into a sample and as long as the TDS is under 20, you might as well consider it distilled for brewing purposes. My RO unit has a 2 year old membrane and it's still putting out water in the 7-8 TDS range so you're probably fine.

2) I'm guessing I should find a lab that will test my water and have a sample done?

It's really not important if you have an RO system. Your untreated tap water MAY be appropriate for some styles of beer but it won't be for all of them. The other issue with testing is that it's only a snapshot in time and you can never really know when it changes.

3) Any input on a basic load of salts to put in that will (hopefully) be close to use until such testing can be done?

You can use a few tools, free or inexpensive to build target water. They all have the ability to input RO water as the source and the amount of salts you add are driven primarily by the type of beer you're making (and the grain bill used). Brewfather has a good calculator built in and it already knows your grain bill, but you can use EZwatercalculator or BruNwater, etc. In my opinion, the primary goal is to ensure a mash pH between 5.0 and 5.6 which can be achieved solely with a lactic/phosphoric acid addition. Secondarily, you do want some calcium in the mash for enzymatic function. Optionally the Chloride/Sulfate ratio drives flavor a bit in terms of malt/sweet vs. bitter/mineral perception which I view as more of a tweak than necessity.

I tend to use a less is more approach. Most of my lactic acid additions for a 6 gallon batch are between 0-4 mL where 4ml is for Pilsner/blonde beers and 0 is for dark beers. I.e. Darker grains are more acidic on their own so they provide the same function as acid additions.

In addition to that, I only use calicum chloride, gypsum and non iodized table salt. Usually 3, 3, and 1 grams respectively. Anything outside of that, I would consider a minor tweak that most people wouldn't be able to detect.

4) Retest yearly? Every two year?

See response to #2

TIA for any input

Lon

 

[IslandLizard]

All what @Bobby_M said! ^

 

[MHBT]

You can get a $10 TDS meter that you drop into a sample and as long as the TDS is under 20, you might as well consider it distilled for brewing purposes. My RO unit has a 2 year old membrane and it's still putting out water in the 7-8 TDS range so you're probably fine.

It's really not important if you have an RO system. Your untreated tap water MAY be appropriate for some styles of beer but it won't be for all of them. The other issue with testing is that it's only a snapshot in time and you can never really know when it changes.

You can use a few tools, free or inexpensive to build target water. They all have the ability to input RO water as the source and the amount of salts you add are driven primarily by the type of beer you're making (and the grain bill used). Brewfather has a good calculator built in and it already knows your grain bill, but you can use EZwatercalculator or BruNwater, etc. In my opinion, the primary goal is to ensure a mash pH between 5.0 and 5.6 which can be achieved solely with a lactic/phosphoric acid addition. Secondarily, you do want some calcium in the mash for enzymatic function. Optionally the Chloride/Sulfate ratio drives flavor a bit in terms of malt/sweet vs. bitter/mineral perception which I view as more of a tweak than necessity.

I tend to use a less is more approach. Most of my lactic acid additions for a 6 gallon batch are between 0-4 mL where 4ml is for Pilsner/blonde beers and 0 is for dark beers. I.e. Darker grains are more acidic on their own so they provide the same function as acid additions.

In addition to that, I only use calicum chloride, gypsum and non iodized table salt. Usually 3, 3, and 1 grams respectively. Anything outside of that, I would consider a minor tweak that most people wouldn't be able to detect.


See response to #2

I always heard when brewing with dark malts, roast etc acid probably isn’t needed as it acidifies the mash naturally, well i brewed a stout the other day and i needed acid, the room temp mash ph without was 5.8 i added acid about 1.25 ml to drop to 5.5

 

[hottpeper13]

I don't think Matty was using RO water, as I get 5.8 with Pils malt.

 

[MHBT]

I don't think Matty was using RO water, as I get 5.8 with Pils malt.

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