Question about imperial stouts.....

[deuc224]

Whats good everyone. Ive made the same imperial stout for about 3 years now and its exactly where i want it to be. The ABV comes in about 10-11.1 and its perfect to me, the bad thing is it takes a good 6-9 months to come into its prime. My question, is there an imperial stout, even if its not as high an ABV, that doesnt take so long to become drinkable? Maybe 1 to 2 months? Any advice, recipes to try, or suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks everyone.

 

[day_trippr]

If I may ask: what characters are you needing to age out that takes 6-9 months?

Cheers!

 

[deuc224]

If I may ask: what characters are you needing to age out that takes 6-9 months?

Cheers!

Just drinkable. I tried it at 4 months and it was HOT, like liquor and chocolate/caramel grains and maple syrup. it was alcohol heavy, at month 9 it tasted like a very nice blend of everything mended together and no alcohol bite whatsoever. Do I stop making it high ABV and keep it in the 9% area? Im kinda lost of where to go. Appreciate it day_trippr

 

[day_trippr]

I've kept an 11.5-ish percent imperial chocolate stout on tap continuously for well over a decade. In a pinch it could go on my beergas setup after just enough time on straight CO2 to bring it up to 1.2 volumes of carbonation - which I do at "cellar" temperature (because it's not easy to do at fridge temperature) for a couple of weeks. NBD.

It almost sounds like you're battling fusels, or else something astringent. What yeast are you using? I use S04 kept under tight temperature control at 65°F for two weeks then bring it up to finish at 68°F before kegging.

Cheers!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Fusels don't age out, but strong ethanol heat does. It's totally normal for a big beer to need a few months or more to settle into itself.

Yes, dropping to 9% will help it mellow faster. Yeast choice and keeping close to the bottom of its temp range can help. Big, healthy pitches help.

This recipe was posted recently. Note the tasting notes at the bottom of the first post.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/bcbs-clone.733219/

 

[deuc224]

I've kept an 11.5-ish percent imperial chocolate stout on tap continuously for well over a decade. In a pinch it could go on my beergas setup after just enough time on straight CO2 to bring it up to 1.2 volumes of carbonation - which I do at "cellar" temperature (because it's not easy to do at fridge temperature) for a couple of weeks. NBD.

It almost sounds like you're battling fusels, or else something astringent. What yeast are you using? I use S04 kept under tight temperature control at 65°F for two weeks then bring it up to finish at 68°F before kegging.

Cheers!

I use wlp 001 california yeast with a big starter, I ferment at 67 for about 2 weeks and raise it up at then end for a D rest. Then it goes in the freezer/fridge on temp control, at serving temp co2.

 

[deuc224]

Fusels don't age out, but strong ethanol heat does. It's totally normal for a big beer to need a few months or more to settle into itself.

Yes, dropping to 9% will help it mellow faster. Yeast choice and keeping close to the bottom of its temp range can help. Big, healthy pitches help.

This recipe was posted recently. Note the tasting notes at the bottom of the first post.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/bcbs-clone.733219/

Thanks DBHb, im gonna try to make a bigger starter than an i do usually. Im gonna try a 9% and see if that can work. Ill just try a glass every week after week 2.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I think you're asking a lot for a big beer full of ethanol and roast. Even my 4% dry stouts benefit from a few months.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Whats good everyone. Ive made the same imperial stout for about 3 years now and its exactly where i want it to be. The ABV comes in about 10-11.1 and its perfect to me, the bad thing is it takes a good 6-9 months to come into its prime. My question, is there an imperial stout, even if its not as high an ABV, that doesnt take so long to become drinkable? Maybe 1 to 2 months? Any advice, recipes to try, or suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks everyone.

What's your recipe? As for advice, maybe ease up on the roasted malts (or use some dehusked roast malts), and keep the bittering around 0.6 bu/gu -- but both of those changes are likely to make your recipe taste noticeably different.

Do you have space to get a pipeline going? Might have to bottle them, unless you have extra kegs.

 

[tdf]

North Coast Old Rasputin is a great example of the style that is sold fresh - sometimes on the shelf 2 weeks after brewing[1].

There's also a clone recipe in the article.


1. https://byo.com/article/russian-imperial-stout/

 

[deuc224]

I think you're asking a lot for a big beer full of ethanol and roast. Even my 4% dry stouts benefit from a few months.

This is what im struggling with, I think im gonna grow some yeast and give it a try. Ill report back.

 

[deuc224]

What's your recipe? As for advice, maybe ease up on the roasted malts (or use some dehusked roast malts), and keep the bittering around 0.6 bu/gu -- but both of those changes are likely to make your recipe taste noticeably different.

Do you have space to get a pipeline going? Might have to bottle them, unless you have extra kegs.

14 lbs 10 oz 2 row
4 lbs 3 oz maris otter
8.5 oz carafa 2
8.5 oz caramel 120
8.5 oz honey malt
8.5 oz special B
8.5 carapils
7.0 caramel 80
7 oz sugar

bu/gu is at 0.54
cooked at 149 for 60 minutes

is it the sugar thats doing it? I know it has a bad bite , do I take it out? Do I start making one every 6 weeks?!!

 

[deuc224]

North Coast Old Rasputin is a great example of the style that is sold fresh - sometimes on the shelf 2 weeks after brewing[1].

There's also a clone recipe in the article.


1. https://byo.com/article/russian-imperial-stout/

Oh im gonna try this one!!!!! appreciate it !!!!

 

[tracer bullet]

I've been finding, I think (I say think because I have made maybe 10 Imperial Stouts now, 1 fermenting as we speak, but it's not really that many) that cooler yeast temps have helped, and also going lighter on any late hops does as well. I love that late hop punch in a Pale Ale or IPA of course, but I think it's not the right thing for an Imperial Stout. It's not that late hops are bad, or that hop flavor is bad, but - late hop additions taste like... late hop additions. Flavors that eventually relax or just go away in an IPA are the same with Imperial Stouts. Once they've subsided things do improve.

Relaxing the roasted grains a little seems to help as well. 15% or so takes forever, but closer to 10% is drinkable a lot faster.

But, here's another thing - those Imperial Stouts I've made that take longer.... are my favorites when given enough time. So instead of tricks to make them more drinkable more quickly I've instead gone to making them earlier. It's becoming a bit of a tradition for me to choose a nice spring day to make a beer I won't really drink until winter comes.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

is it the sugar thats doing it? I know it has a bad bite , do I take it out? Do I start making one every 6 weeks?!!

@tracer bullet beat me to what I was in the middle of typing, and said it better anyways. But yeah, it's hot and boozy because it's a high abv beer, and it needs age. So get a couple batches going concurrently!

 

[day_trippr]

But yeah, it's hot and boozy because it's a high abv beer, and it needs age.

What's going to age out of a "high abv" beer that'll make it not so "hot and boozy"?

The OP is referring to a ~10% ABV stout. That isn't anywhere near enough alcohol content to be "hot and boozy" to anyone aside from utter tyros. Even then, the 11~11.5% chocolate stout I brew is enjoyed by actual women.

There must be something else going on - and there are all kinds of potential causes other than alcohol content. Like astringency due to tannin extraction, excessive roast/black malt content...

Cheers!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

What's going to age out of a "high abv" beer that'll make it not so "hot and boozy"?

Well OP said:
I tried it at 4 months and it was HOT, like liquor and chocolate/caramel grains and maple syrup. it was alcohol heavy, at month 9 it tasted like a very nice blend of everything mended together and no alcohol bite whatsoever.

So age does seem to be making it better for him. I've had both commercial and home-made imperials that tasted pretty boozy until they sat in storage for a couple of months.

There must be something else going on - and there are all kinds of potential causes other than alcohol content. Like astringency due to tannin extraction, excessive roast/black malt content...

In post #12, he gives us his recipe. Doesn't look like excessive roast/black malts.

 

[day_trippr]

So...what was it that "ages out" then? Are y'all literally waiting for the alcohol content to somehow magically drop and that makes the difference between drinkable and not so much?

Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

You can optimise your process and get a really good beer sooner than now but you will still have the best version of it after the same aging time. It is what is. The stronger the beer, the more it benefits from aging. Also, the darker the beer, the more it benefits from aging. As you have a dark and strong beer, aging for 8 months + is mandatory if you ask me.

That does not mean it can be great sooner. This just means that you will be very sad when you forget one bottle somewhere and rediscover it a year later just to find out that it tastes better than all the previous ones because it aged for more than a year and all the others didn't.

 

[tracer bullet]

I've also always been curious what aging does. For an IPA or something that would be a bad idea. So I wonder if dark beers actually get better because of some dark beer magic, or maybe it's just that once they've oxidized a little and the hop flavor's gone away, we get what we were hoping for all along?

I recall homebrewing in the early 90's, when we (friends I brewed with) would have poor O2 control practices, and we'd not like how beers tasted in the first week or so, we'd wait for those flavors to settle out and then the beer would be "good". Today we'd feel the opposite about those same beers - they'd be good the first week or so then have lost their flavor and be oxidized afterwards, a total reversal of opinion. I can't speak for anyone else but am curious if that's what I am thinking about Imperial Stouts? I won't say I prefer them oxidized, that feels strange, but... I have to wonder for the hops at least if I don't simply prefer them to have lost (most of) their flavor. Or if a little oxidizing is actually beneficial to the style.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Is an organic material. Micro-oxidation or not, it's going to change over time. This isn't something bizarre or out of left field. Fine wine, cheese, mead, oak furniture. Some characteristics mellow, others come to the fore, some change character all together. Maybe you enjoy your gouda fresh, young, soft and creamy. I do. I also like aged gouda. Firm to hard, nutty, pockets of salty crystals. Age does things. Whether it's good or bad, up to the beholder. General consensus is high ABV and darker beers get better. Brew some, drink it as young as you like, save a few bottles for its anniversary. You may find you join the 'age it' camp. But don't get bent out of shape when you can't get your 2wk old imperial to taste like a 12mo old.

 

[Miraculix]

Is an organic material. Micro-oxidation or not, it's going to change over time. This isn't something bizarre or out of left field. Fine wine, cheese, mead, oak furniture. Some characteristics mellow, others come to the fore, some change character all together. Maybe you enjoy your gouda fresh, young, soft and creamy. I do. I also like aged gouda. Firm to hard, nutty, pockets of salty crystals. Age does things. Whether it's good or bad, up to the beholder. General consensus is high ABV and darker beers get better. Brew some, drink it as young as you like, save a few bottles for its anniversary. You may find you join the 'age it' camp. But don't get bent out of shape when you can't get your 2wk old imperial to taste like a 12mo old.

Fun fact of the day: the crystals in aged cheese are actually not salty, because they are not salt but crystallised amino acids!

I've just learned that myself and couldn't keep it to myself.

 

[HM-2]

Fun fact of the day: the crystals in aged cheese are actually not salty, because they are not salt but crystallised amino acids!

Glutamic acid FTW.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Just going to point out I said 'salty crystals', not 'crystals of salt'. Y'all going to tell me they don't taste salty?

 

[user 246304]

Following. I have an RIS recipe I got from a British brewing friend at about month 4, now, on Brett. Plan to let it go to completion, which could be a year or better, then bottle for many years more. 13%. Used piloncillo among other things. It is developing beautifully.

 

[user 246304]

Glutamic acid FTW.

Tyrosine usually, with glutamic as a secondary.

 

[Miraculix]

Just going to point out I said 'salty crystals', not 'crystals of salt'. Y'all going to tell me they don't taste salty?

I tried it. It's the surrounding cheese that's salty, not the crystals. At least this was the case with the cheese I've had.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Could it be the salt of the cheese somehow is drawn in to the crystalline matter as it forms?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Following. I have an RIS recipe I got from a British brewing friend at about month 4, now, on Brett. Plan to let it go to completion, which could be a year or better, then bottle for many years more. 13%. Used piloncillo among other things. It is developing beautifully.

I've got an Imperial Stout bottle conditioning right now, secondary'd on brett and bottled about 2mo ago.
It'll maybe try a bottle sometime late this fall to see how it's coming along...

 

[Miraculix]

I've got an Imperial Stout bottle conditioning right now, secondary'd on brett and bottled about 2mo ago.
It'll maybe try a bottle sometime late this fall to see how it's coming along...

I got an Victorian porter or stout or whatever your wanna call it in the bottle. Was on brett for about a year and now it's in the bottle for about 3/4 of a year. Still getting nicer, but I think the improvement is slowly coming to a halt and it probably hits its peak soon. Good beer!