Question about Extract/AG Grain Bill

[goudaphunk]

I have pasted a copy of the Founders Breakfast Stout Recipe below. This is a newbie question, but I am new to AG brewing. I've only done about 6-7 batches specifically only using pre-made kits from Northern Brewer. The AG recipe says
All-grain option:
This is a single step infusion mash. Replace the malt extracts with 13.2 lbs. (6 kg) 2-row pale malt. Mix the crushed grains with 3.75 gallons

My question is what other grains do I need beside the 2-row Pale Malt? I am clear on the hops, chocolate, and coffee additions. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Cheers.


Founder’s Brewing Company Breakfast Stout

(5 gallons/ 19 L, extract with grains) OG = 1.078 FG = 1.020 IBUs = 60 SRM = 59 ABV = 7.5 %

Ingredients:
6.6 lbs. (3.0 kg) Briess light, unhopped, malt extract
1.7 lbs. (0.77 kg) light dry extract
22 oz. (0.62 kg) flaked oats
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) chocolate malt (350 °L)
12 oz. (0.34 kg) roast barley malt (450 °L)
9.0 oz. (0.25 kg) debittered, black malt (530 °L)
7.0 oz. (0.19 kg) crystal malt (120 °L)
2.0 oz. (57 g) ground Sumatran coffee
2.0 oz. (57 g) ground Kona coffee
2.5 oz. (71 g) dark, bittersweet baker’s chocolate
1.5 oz. (43 g) unsweetened chocolate baking nibs
14.3 AAU Nugget pellet hops (60 min.) (1.1 oz./ 31 g of 13% alpha acid)
2.5 AAU Willamette pellet hops (30 min.) (0.5 oz./ 14 g of 5 % alpha acid)
2.5 AAU Willamette pellet hops (0 min.) (0.5 oz./ 14 g of 5 % alpha acid)
1⁄2 tsp. yeast nutrient (last 15 minutes)
1⁄2 tsp. Irish moss (last 15 minutes
White Labs WLP 001 (American Ale) or Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) yeast
0.75 cup (150 g) of corn sugar for priming (if bottling)

Step by Step:
Steep the crushed grain in 2 gallons (7.6 L) of water at 155 ºF (68 ºC) for 30 minutes. Remove grains from the wort and rinse with 2 quarts (1.8 L) of hot water. Add the liquid and dried malt extracts and bring to a boil. Add the hops and Irish moss as per the schedule. Add the Sumatran coffee and two chocolate varieties at the end of the boil. Add the wort to 2 gallons (7.6 L) of cold water in a sanitized fermenter and top off with cold water up to 5 gallons (19 L). Cool the wort to 75 ºF (24 ºC). Pitch the yeast and aerate the wort heavily. Allow the beer to cool to 68 ºF (20 ºC). Hold at that temperature until fermentation is complete. Transfer to a carboy, avoiding any splashing. Add the Kona coffee and condition for one week, then bottle or keg. Carbonate and age for two weeks.

All-grain option:
This is a single step infusion mash. Replace the malt extracts with 13.2 lbs. (6 kg) 2-row pale malt. Mix the crushed grains with 3.75 gallons (14 L) of 172 °F (78° C) water to stabilize at 155 ºF (68º C) for 60 minutes. Sparge slowly with 175 ºF (79º C) water. Collect approximately 6 gallons (23 L) of wort runoff to boil for 60 minutes. Reduce the 60 minute hop addition to 1 oz. (28 g) and the 30 minute addition to 0.4 oz. (11 g) to allow for the higher utilization factor of a full wort boil. Follow the remainder of the extract with grain recipe.

 

[BlackGoat]

all of the grains should be mashed. When doing all-grain, you mash all of the grains, you don't do any steeping or anything else like that. So, you'll need to mash this in with your 2-row:

22 oz. (0.62 kg) flaked oats
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) chocolate malt (350 °L)
12 oz. (0.34 kg) roast barley malt (450 °L)
9.0 oz. (0.25 kg) debittered, black malt (530 °L)
7.0 oz. (0.19 kg) crystal malt (120 °L)

 

[goudaphunk]

Thanks BlackGoat. That's what I thought. I just wanted to double check. Appreciate it.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Quick sanity check: do you have a mill already, and if not, did you specify that the grain needed to be crushed when you bought it? There are few things more frustrating and embarrassing in brewing as forgetting to crush your rains before trying to mash them Never did it myself, but I've heard enough stories about folks who did, especially on their first AG batch.

 

[goudaphunk]

@BlackGoat. So when I added the 13.2 lbs of 2-Row and the other ingredients, do I need to take their volume into consideration and add more than 3.75 gallons of mash water, as stated above?

 

[goudaphunk]

I would most definitely order crushed. Luckily, in my AG experiences, this is something I remember.

 

[goudaphunk]

@Schol-R-LEA, I just need to grind some coffee right,as stated in the recipe above, not brew 4 oz? Probably a stupid question, but just checking.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

I believe the intention is for you to add the ground directly to the boiler; not what I would normally recommend, as boiling coffee tends to increase bitterness (EDIT: not astringency, as I originally wrote, sorry), but that is what the instructions seem to indicate.

 

[LovesIPA]

@BlackGoat. So when I added the 13.2 lbs of 2-Row and the other ingredients, do I need to take their volume into consideration and add more than 3.75 gallons of mash water, as stated above?

Here's what you do: Add together the total amount of grain. You want to target about 1.25 quarts/lb, so multiply by the pounds by 1.25 to get the number of quarts needed for mashing.

 

[BlackGoat]

about 1.25 quarts/lb, so multiply by the pounds by 1.25 to get the number of quarts needed for mashing.

What he said. I do BIAB all-grain brewing and usually use somewhere between 1.25 and 1.75 quarts (not gallons!) per pound of grain. So for roughly 13lbs of grain you would need a little over 4 gallons of mash water.

 

[goudaphunk]

Benefits to BIAB are ?

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

So when I added the 13.2 lbs of 2-Row and the other ingredients, do I need to take their volume into consideration and add more than 3.75 gallons of mash water, as stated above?

With all the grains included, it would be around 17.3lbs., which gives a water to grist ratio of .88 - an extremely thick mash. This indicates to me that they expect you to mash only the base malt and steep the rest in the additional 2 gallons, but I would disagree with that rather strongly. My suggestion is to use the whole use the whole 5.75 gallons as mash water. Even that is a really thick mash (1.32 qt/lb.) for single infusion as it is - I plugged this recipe into BeerSmith, and it recommended an 8.83 gallon mash, with a more typical ratio of just over 2 qt/lb.

BTW, what are you using for a mash tun and lauter tun (assuming this isn't BIAB, in which case don't worry about it), and how large is your brew kettle?

 

[RM-MN]

Benefits to BIAB are ?

One pot to mash and boil in, no stuck sparge ever. Simple and cheap to get started and makes the same beer as any other method of mashing. You can have your grains milled extra fine since you have a big bag for filtering and that leads to great efficiency.

 

[BlackGoat]

A very simplified pro/con:

Con: less control over temperature and certain mash aspects compared to traditional mashing

Pros: no need for a cooler or second vessel, you can mash in your kettle using a large grain bag, very simple.

This is a great place to learn more if you're interested: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

 

[goudaphunk]

I have a 10 gallon MLT and a 15 gallon BK.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Benefits to BIAB are ?

Lower equipment cost and fewer things to store between brewing session, mainly, as I understand it (I haven't done it myself). You don't need a separate mash tun and lauter tun, and sparging become simply a matter of lifting the grain sack up over the boiler and pouring water through it - which could be easy or difficult depending on the amount of grain in question, I suppose. For a grain bill this large, it would probably be very difficult unless you had something to hold it up with.

 

[goudaphunk]

@SCHOL. How did you determine the water/grist ratio? Beersmith?

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

@SCHOL. How did you determine the water/grist ratio? Beersmith?

I took the recommended mash water amount BeerSmith gave and divided that, in quarts, by the amount of grain: (8.83 * 4) / 17.32 = 2.03. While that is on the thin side, single infusion mashes generally are thinner, and for some reason BS always gives me a really high mash water figure, though the total mash water figure in this case includes the mash-out, which is 8.66 qt of that total.

 

[LovesIPA]

for some reason BS always gives me a really high mash water figure

Beersmith adds dead lauter tun space to the mash water volume. So if you have .5 gallons of dead space in your equipment profile, it will add .5 gallons to your mash water volume.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Beersmith adds dead lauter tun space to the mash water volume. So if you have .5 gallons of dead space in your equipment profile, it will add .5 gallons to your mash water volume.

Oh, right, I had forgotten that. And yes, my dead space is particularly large (5 qts - the false bottom fits a bit too tightly, so it doesn't sit down quite to the bottom of the tun, and tends to be canted at a slight angle), so it certainly would reflect this. The main effect of this is to prolong what are already very long boil-off times.

For Goudaphunk's part, the practical upshot of this (and the inclusion of the mash-out water in the total water listing) is that you would probably want closer to 23.75 qts (a little less than 6 gallons) for the mash water, assuming a more normal 2 qt dead space, for a ratio of 1.37. The mash-out water should be included when preparing the mash water, but not added to the mash until mash has completed (as usual).

 

[goudaphunk]

So, if I put these numbers into Beersmith, it'll calculate total sparge water as well, correct?

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Just so, though you will want to set all the correct figures for you equipment, boil-off rate, etc. to get the best results. Also, you may need to add some of the ingredients to the ingredients lists (the coffee and the bittersweet chocolate, specifically), which you can do by going to Ingredients->Misc and clicking the Add Ingredient button.