Pyramid Apricot... An Elusive Clone?

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Chriso

Chriso

Broken Robot Brewing Co.
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Searching far and wide has not revealed much in my hunt for a Pyramid Apricot clone. I found a couple recipes that were extract-based and didn't much resemble each other. And in glancing at them, both seem far too heavily hopped to "do the trick".

So I drew inspiration from Ed's Bee Cave Kolsch, and also from Biermuncher's Krisper Kolsch. I know I want to use my White Labs Kolsch yeast for this one, even though it's not true to the Pyramid Apricot recipe. I've had Pyramid's Curveball Kolsch and I think the two are very compatible tastes.

So below is what I've come up with so far for a theoretical Pyramid Apricot clone:

Hopefully Pyramid Apricot

Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Time: 90 min

6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 63.16 %
3 lbs Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 31.58 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %

1.00 oz GR Hersbrucker '07 [3.20 %] (90 min) Hops 14.3 IBU
0.50 oz GR Hersbrucker '07 [3.20 %] (15 min) Hops 1.9 IBU

1 Pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [Starter 16 oz] Yeast-Ale

1.00 items Apricot (Canned, Oregon brand) (Secondary 14.0 days) Misc

Est Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.75 %
Bitterness: 16.2 IBU
Est Color: 5.3 SRM

90 min Mash In Add 2.97 gal of water at 169.4 F = 154.0 F
​

My potential concerns:
1) Is 2-to-1 too heavy on the wheat? It's heavier in wheat than either of the Kolsches I based it on, because I want it to shine through as a nice crisp wheaty beer.

2) Is 16 IBUs too little? That is to say, will this wind up being so sickly sweet and underhopped that only girls will like it? (Is that a bad thing? ;) )

3) I went with Hersbrucker because I have gobs of it on hand. Is it worth it to look around for better-suited hops? OTOH, Hersbrucker is nice and low in AAs and that seems to be "right" for doing an Apricot Wheat.

4) Think it's going to wind up "weird" since I'm using the Oregon puree and not extract? I think I heard once that Pyramid uses flavor extract in their Apricot, and that there's no real fruit there at all...........

Comments welcome, please critique! Thank you! :)
 
I always thought that Pyramid Apricot was on the sweet side anyway, so I think you are good there.
 
I should've mentioned, this is the "big can" of Oregon. 42 oz or whatever it is... the one that all the HBSes carry, not the in-the-grocery-store stuff.
 
Chriso said:
Hopefully Pyramid Apricot

Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Time: 90 min

6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 63.16 %
3 lbs Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 31.58 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %

1.00 oz GR Hersbrucker '07 [3.20 %] (90 min) Hops 14.3 IBU
0.50 oz GR Hersbrucker '07 [3.20 %] (15 min) Hops 1.9 IBU

1 Pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [Starter 16 oz] Yeast-Ale

1.00 items Apricot (Canned, Oregon brand) (Secondary 14.0 days) Misc
Click to expand...



Just an update, I brewed this on Sunday. I changed the recipe a little, just based on what I had handy, and what was sitting around, etc.

4 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US
4 lbs Wheat - White Malt
8.0 oz Honey Malt
4 oz Caramel 40L

OG of about 1.042 or so.

(Edit: Oh yeah! I used 1/4 lb of rice hulls, too, and the sparge went like a million dollar wonder. Not a stuckness anywhere in sight.)

I used about 1/3 oz Hersbrucker as a First Wort hop, and the remaining 2/3 of an oz as my 60" bittering addition. I left out the late addition. I pitched a roughly 1200ml starter of the Kolsch yeast, that had *just* started to drop its kraeusen. (As in, it was actively bubbling when I started the brew, and was settling out as I collected my wort.) I had activity within 8 hours.

It's in primary right now still, I'm using the bucket-in-a-tub-of-ice-water cooling method to hopefully hold my temps around 65-67*F. It's a bit hard to maintain since I'm gone all day long, which is when the window A/C units usually cause the greatest temperature fluctuations due to their being so underpowered for my house. Hopefully the temps are better than most of my batches, though! Any improvement is still improvement!

I bought a bottle of Apricot Extract, and I still plan on using the puree. My plan is to add the Apricot directly on top of the yeast cake (I harvested a bunch of Kolsch already, I don't need a second batch of harvested yeast quite yet, I'm out of room) and let it ferment out for about another week. Then I plan to rack to a bottling bucket, and add the apricot extract slowly, to taste. I want to give it the subtle real-fruit taste, as well as just a touch of the sweet fake apricot taste too.

Then, I'll rack right back out of the bottling bucket, into a keg.

Comments thus far? :D
 
Don't know yet, it's sitting in primary. Today's job is to clean some kegs, and rack this puppy.

The base beer tasted good though, I had about 1/2 gal extra that I shoved into a growler and put into the fridge for 2 weeks to get the yeast to drop out. Very nice base wheat beer, not too hoppy, almost tasted like apricots without having added the fruit yet!
 
Result: Clone still elusive.

It's a really good beer, don't get me wrong. Tart, wheat-y, color is spot-on for the clone, in fact head/head retention/head color are even right for the clone. I think the base beer is solid. But the real apricot puree is too tart, too fruity...in that fermented-out fruit way.

I have a bottle of Apricot extract that I'm gonna add eventually (not tonight) to see if it helps nail down the taste. But for now, I'm enjoying the rest of this pint:

A: Hazy golden tawny color. Rocky white head, grrrreat lacing on the glass.
A: Little bit of yeasty/wheaty/bready aroma, with a tinge of fruitiness to it.
F: A bit dry and astringent immediately upon swallowing, but then immediately after, mellows to a malty, fruity body. Tastes a bit yeasty still, I've only drawn 3 pints thus far, and it'll probably improve in another week (Carb still a bit low)
M: Pretty good, but it has a weird "mouth coating" sensation - I'm guessing from the Apricot. It's not bad, just a little more tart/fermented-fruit-y than I expected. Extract might help this.
O: Not a bad start, but not perfect yet. But HIGHLY drinkable!
 
The flavor in Pyramid Apricot tastes 100% extract to me. I would try just using that. I've seen some clones on beertools for it that use Nugget hops, which is possible since the hops in it don't taste spicy/noble at all, more on the herby/vegetal side of things.

It tastes almost like a wheaty pils with apricot flavoring added actually, to me at least. Perhaps you could try that direction. Until then, happy brewing!
 
I skipped Nugget because I am presuming that the hop used has very little impact on the finished flavor, since it is not very bitter at all, less than 15 IBUs. I went with Hersbrucker because I have a pound and a half laying around that I need to use up.

I'm with ericd, it needs to remain more of a straight-up pils/wheat. I would probably use 4oz Caramel again, but the honey malt can stay home. Similarly, a little less wheat, more pils. Backsweetening shouldn't be necessary with the extract that I've got, it's super-sickly-sweet.

I went with the Kolsch yeast because I did a side-by-side of the P.A. and the Pyramid Curve Ball Kolsch, and they tasted very very similar, but without the fruit in the Kolsch. A weizen yeast would not hurt it by any means, but I don't have temp control yet, so I've been avoiding weizen yeasts until I *do* have it, because I don't want to turn it into a Banana Bomb. :)

If I brew this again (which I might, in a month or two!) I would probably scale the grain bill over a little - Call it 6 lbs Pilsner Malt (not 2-row, I want something more thin), 2-3 lbs Wheat Malt, and 4 oz Caramel 40 or Caramel 60. Mash 75 minutes at 148, do either a Weizen or Kolsch yeast, and ferment at around 67*F. Then, a full bottle of apricot extract when it goes into the keg.
 
My friend brewed an Apricot Ale that tasted exactly like Pyramid's. He used extract and one of NB's kits. I would definitely suggest using the extract to create a successful clone.
 
Chriso said:
I went with the Kolsch yeast because I did a side-by-side of the P.A. and the Pyramid Curve Ball Kolsch, and they tasted very very similar, but without the fruit in the Kolsch. A weizen yeast would not hurt it by any means, but I don't have temp control yet, so I've been avoiding weizen yeasts until I *do* have it, because I don't want to turn it into a Banana Bomb. :)
Click to expand...

Widmer hefe is fermented with a less flocculant variant of WLP036 / WY1007 (the German Altbier strain) which is available from White Labs as WLP320. You could try that strain. It isn't too far out to use a Kolsch yeast for an American hefe IMO since the Kolsch and Alt are fairly similar. I definitely would stay the heck away from the typical hefe strains since you don't want the banana or clove. I tried WLP001 once for a hefe and it was too flocculant.

You could ask the brewery what strain they use. They may be willing to share.

With these strains cooler fermentation temps are better. 60-62 is ideal. My ferm chamber can get there with 4# of ice twice a day plus a wet T-shirt over the carboy and box fan. 67 is definitely going to get pretty fruity with an Alt or Kolsch strain.
 
I use buckets with spigots.... I experimented with using ice bath to cool them on my last brew.... bad news... even with StarSan in the ice water, I got a bunch of moldy looking crap that grew in the spigots. So ice baths are "out" for the time being.

My fall project is to assemble a plywood "house" for a spare room in the basement, so that I can run a window A/C unit for some walk-in cooling action. Now I just gotta learn how to cut wood. And measure. And frame. And Insulate. And wire.

This project seems so much bigger every time I think about it. :/

I wish I had a handy friend.

I might send Pyramid an email and see what I can squeak out of them. If I re-brew this, I'll try to find Nugget hops.
 
Chriso said:
My fall project is to assemble a plywood "house" for a spare room in the basement, so that I can run a window A/C unit for some walk-in cooling action. Now I just gotta learn how to cut wood. And measure. And frame. And Insulate. And wire.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah.... :rockin: I plan to do the same some day, but I need a basement first. :D
 
Bumping this thread to ask a question: I'm not looking for a Pyramid precise clone, per se, but I am trying to impart some apricot flavoring into an American Wheat I brewed. I secondaried 5 gallons of a proto-typical American Wheat on top of a 3 lb. can of Apricot puree last weekend (the stuff you can get at the HBS). Yesterday I took a SG reading (looks like it's still working away, but coming down nicely) and drank the sample--no apricot flavor detected whatsoever. So, I'm considering two options:

1) adding some extract before bottling; and/or
2) doing a tertiary on another can or two of apricot puree (3 lbs)

Looking for some advice on those options. Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
Shoot. I had read something like a month or two ago that caused me to think, "That would be a great way to get a boost of apricot flavor into something because the fruit is so subtle."

Now I can only remember having the thought, not what inspired it. I almost think it was a spice?

I'm posting this response mostly in the hopes it'll kickstart my memory a bit, but so far it hasn't been successful.

I'd go with some extract otherwise, but also be prepared that carbonation might make the apricot flavor pop a little. Every 3 lb can of puree you add is adding more alcohol to your beer and if you just keep doing that, you'll get one hellacious brew.

Edit: I'm still getting nothing, and I'm too tired to keep thinking about it, but if something comes back to me I'll return and post it. In the meantime, you can glance at this, which is a suggestion of ingredients to replace apricot flavor in cooking... pretty risky to play with any of those, I'd think, but it's a neat site anyway ;)
 
I too would head for Extract.

I found that the real fruit left a weird taste, a bit "muddy" since the fructose fermented out - I'd start with 1/3 of the little bottle of extract, then more as needed, by taste.

If I brew this again, I'll be using either Flavoring Extract, or even a combination of both. Rumor is that Pyramid's uses flavoring only.
 
Chriso said:
If I brew this again, I'll be using either Flavoring Extract, or even a combination of both. Rumor is that Pyramid's uses flavoring only.
Click to expand...
I think most commercial breweries using extracts for their fruit beers, even if just to supplement whole fruit... it's more consistent, and gives a much more pronounced flavor.
 
I looked up this thread to find out how to make this after buying one today. Neither fruit beers or wheat beers are my thing but this is one good tasting beer. I would love to be able to make this.

As far as yeast options for it though.... There is a layer of sediment in the bottle. Yeast? If so, why not just harvest from the bottle?

From the Pyramid website
50% 2 row
50 % wheat

Nugget or Summit hops

Will have to try this for summer.
 
I'm thinking about using NB American Wheat for the base and adding extract...

How much and of what kind of Apricot extract would you suggest for a 5gal batch (NB Extract American Wheat)
 
ericd said:
The flavor in Pyramid Apricot tastes 100% extract to me. I would try just using that. I've seen some clones on beertools for it that use Nugget hops, which is possible since the hops in it don't taste spicy/noble at all, more on the herby/vegetal side of things.

It tastes almost like a wheaty pils with apricot flavoring added actually, to me at least. Perhaps you could try that direction. Until then, happy brewing!
Click to expand...
I know. Old ass thread. I helped develop the recipe for the apricot ale. Pretty much the old wheaten ale base with apricot syrup added.
 
The name of the beer was "Wheaten Ale". Not sure if they even make it any more. It used to be their biggest seller. Wheaten was 50% malted wheat and 50% 2 row pale on a 3 step mash at 122, 140 and 152 if memory serves me right with a rather neutral ale yeast. Light nugget hopping. Probably Rogue yeast would be the closest commercially available. I don't remember the dosing rate of the syrup but it all depends on what syrup you use.
 
From what Pyramid has on their site and the addition on this thread how does the following sound?

For a 5.5 gal batch assuming 68% efficiency.
6.0 lbs - 2 Row Malt
6.0 lbs - Wheat Malt
.55 oz - Nugget Hops (AA 13%) Add with 15 mins left in boil.

White Labs California Ale yeast.
1 - 3lb Can Oregon Fruit Apricot Puree (add in secondary)

Estimated 11.3 IBU and abv of 5.27%. Pyramid's web site shows 11 and 5.1 respectively.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Honestly, I would use syrup in the keg. You dont want the sugars in the syrup to ferment. That imparts the tart or flavorlessness that I think is keeping the clone illusive. Brew the ale as is, with only the malt and wheat+hops. Then ferment it out. Then add the syrup to the keg before you add beer. Make sure the syrup doesnt contain sugars if you bottle.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I've never used a syrup before and I will be bottling. Any suggestion of a brand. Thanks.
 

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