Purchasing a new 14g stainless steel conical...suggestions

[Soulshine]

I'm waiting on the 14g Spike Conicals to be available. That's how I'm leaning anyway. Any other suggestions or you think that is the way to go? Had a blichmann for several years and time for new toy.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Thats what I'm waiting on as well. For the money, you really cant get anything better. Blichmann is weldless fittings. I'm done with headaches from leaks. Also Spike's conicals are looking to have butterfly valves sampling ports, pressure transfer capable. and a large opening on the top that is tri-clover so you can easily dry hop or add yeast etc to the conacle. Looks like a future proof design

 

[RevKev]

I've been looking at the SS Brewtech 14 gallon series, I have the kettle and I love it. I guess they got me hooked into brand loyalty because the Spike is looking nice but for some reason I always gravitate back to Ss.

The BrewMaster series has a domed top with 3" triclamp fittings and the removable chiller coil which is already available. Spike seems to have one in the works though but I like how Ss has so many accessories already available, such as a Stainless blow off tube attachment and sight glass

 

[augiedoggy]

Unless spike changed something their Conicals used to be made by the same folks in the USA that make the ones blichmann sells (Toledo metal spinning ) to me it seems like a no brainier when comparing the features and cost to the Chinese made Ss ones that the spike ones would be the better value.
Of course a lot of distributors and companies change up their suppliers in this hobby often so I don't know if spike changed their source for their Conicals when the did so for those kettles. Both the SS and spike versions would be better than the old blichmann design with the weldless fitting... One of these days you would think they would catch up with the times and go with a seamless sanitary setup like their much less overpriced competitors but ironically it seems the name is still enough to sell them to folks who don't do this homework. Just my thoughts...

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Augiedogg is right, at least to my knowlege regarding sourcing of the actual conicals. I think its kind of the arguments that you hear in regards to Toyota cars and trucks. They do some really dumb things when rolling out new cars with old tech, but people will keep buying it because, "Hey its a Toyota!" Similar with Blichmann. They got in early in the Homebrew boom and its still seen as a target to reach for when upgrading to more prosumer level gear.

Now we as brewers have better choices out there. Spike's conicals promise to be on the same level as Brewer's Hardware, likely without the high polish finish though (oh yeah... and the crazy pricetag)

Now if only Spike Brewing could stop pushing back their product launch deadline for their conicals... I'm like a pregnant woman who is a week past their delivery date. Hoping, Waiting. Praying. For it to be available soon!

 

[JB_Brewing2]

While it's not a 14 gallon, the 15 gallon Brewers Hardware conical is worth a look: https://www.brewershardware.com/15-Gallon-Stainless-Steel-Conical-Fermentor.html

Mine is outstanding and I've had no issues with it. Pay attention to the way the lid seals on the conicals you're considering. Most have an entire lid that is removed and on the other conical I own with this type of lid, this can be problematic in achieving a good seal. I like the fact that everything seals with tri-clovers on the BH conical.

Just my $0.02.

 

[augiedoggy]

While it's not a 14 gallon, the 15 gallon Brewers Hardware conical is worth a look: https://www.brewershardware.com/15-Gallon-Stainless-Steel-Conical-Fermentor.html

Mine is outstanding and I've had no issues with it. Pay attention to the way the lid seals on the conicals you're considering. Most have an entire lid that is removed and on the other conical I own with this type of lid, this can be problematic in achieving a good seal. I like the fact that everything seals with tri-clovers on the BH conical.

Just my $0.02.

How is it to clean though? Seems like it might be more difficult. It's certainly ideal for pressurized transfers and even for use as a bright tank I would think? It's also crazy expensive for a 15 gallon Chinese conical almost double most other options... And they aren't much cheaper when I looked at them sold direct on alibaba last.

 

[JB_Brewing2]

How is it to clean though? Seems like it might be more difficult. It's certainly ideal for pressurized transfers and even for use as a bright tank I would think? It's also crazy expensive for a 15 gallon Chinese conical almost double most other options... And they aren't much cheaper when I looked at them sold direct on alibaba last.

The large 8" port on top allows easy access for cleaning and they also offer a rotating CIP spray ball for those who prefer a less laborious method of cleaning.

The OP did not list cost as a deciding factor therefore I opined on quality only. However, your statement of "crazy expensive" does seem in opposition to your thoughts in September of last year and I quote; "In any case BH seems to be offering these at a very fair price and im sure they will stand behind them if theres any problems." ???

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=538864&page=2

Please know that I do prefer to support products made as close to my community as possible and appreciate your same thoughts.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

I would say that Brewers Hardware is not exactly "Crazy Expensive" Glacier Tanks would qualify though...

Both have great atrributes (Brewers Hardware and Spike) The biggest difference is the structure of the BH looks to be a bit more substantial and obviously does not use a gasket top system. I wouldnt count the manway as one.

Still for the money... I think the Spike is a better value proposition.

 

[augiedoggy]

Fair enough I just thing an extra $4-500 is a lot when the only functional advantage is an 8" TC lid for pressurized transfers. I have done a couple pressurized transfers for my conical myself and found no real advantage myself.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

I'm waiting for Spike before I add a second conical to my mix.

I've the SS Brewtech 14 gallon brewmaster. I like it but a few things have aggrevated me about it. It came filthy in a cloying oil. I cleaned it 2 times before first used. I also sanded and polished a few spots in the interior after initial cleaning, just a few spots that were a little rougher then I would like. Probably never any chance of infection, but not taking chances.

Also after 7 or 8 fementations, dispite meticulous cleaning and following there passification regimen, small rust spots occurred on the krausen line. Nothing Barkeeper's Friend didn't take out, but, a nicer smoother finish on the interior would likely prevent this and it's something I'm looking for in my next conical.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm waiting for Spike before I add a second conical to my mix.

I've the SS Brewtech 14 gallon brewmaster. I like it but a few things have aggrevated me about it. It came filthy in a cloying oil. I cleaned it 2 times before first used. I also sanded and polished a few spots in the interior after initial cleaning, just a few spots that were a little rougher then I would like. Probably never any chance of infection, but not taking chances.

Also after 7 or 8 fementations, dispite meticulous cleaning and following there passification regimen, small rust spots occurred on the krausen line. Nothing Barkeeper's Friend didn't take out, but, a nicer smoother finish on the interior would likely prevent this and it's something I'm looking for in my next conical.

and see if it truly was 304 grade stainless steel you wouldn't see the rust.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

well Augiedog, there isn't much reason to believe it isn't 304 ... there is zero benefit from marketing non 304 as 304.

The corrosion is likely crevice corrosion which will occur with inadequate finish in combination process history and enviromental conditions. It's like brewing, the same ingredients, but different processes yields different results.

I also see it in my SS Brewtech and BrewBuilt kettles (same manufacturer) in high stess areas and it's led me to conclude that it's the finish in combination with inadequate annealing / cooling. I have sanded and polished these areas especially in the lip area where the top of the kettle is rolled over. This will help but it will be an ongoing battle because short cuts were employed, in the processing, not in the material selection.

SSBT must know this, I'm assuming they have talented engineers (like myself ) and that they are compromising to provide a price point.

For me, as I make major ugrades to my equipment, the challenge is that there are not enough people looking critically at their expensive equipment purchases and posting what they see online. Granted the SS BT passivation obcession should have been a clue to me, but how would I know if Spike or Blichmann have the same issues. I'm happy to pay more for value, but unfortunately, I don't know who delivers the value.

 

[augiedoggy]

well Augiedog, there isn't much reason to believe it isn't 304 ... there is zero benefit from marketing non 304 as 304.

.

You mean Like bayou classic and Concord does?
The guys at Ss brewtech order these from a Chinese manufacturer and many times these manufacturers change things without telling their customer so they can make a little extra money. It's very possible the stainless varies at times. There a thread from about 6-8 months ago discussing hot the concord and bayou kettles are not made of 304 stainless at all even though they are advertised as such... concord uses a totally different grade of stainless from India. And bayou classic kettles work with induction cool tops whereas real 304 grade stainless is non magnetic and doesn't work. There are different grade of stainless that work fine for brewing but the fact of the matter is 304 is the hyped up gold standard and most brewing equipment and fittings are sold As 304 or 316 even when it's not.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

Augie, I think we agree on the same basic point about suppliers keeping their costs down. It's just more complicated then using 201 in place of 304.

These vessels are spun so they may be subjected to heavy cold working which leaves stress and can decrease corrosion resistance (but increases the vessel's strength). Annealing after forming may resolve this, but heating to 1900 degrees and water cooling, isn't inexepensive. Maybe the best domestic suppliers do this, I dunno, but these are some of the questions I'll ask before my next purchase.

Overall, I will say that surface finish seems to me to be the biggest factor in the minor corrosion I see on my equipment. I have many Triclover fittings and other, that I know are 304, in manufacture, they have been worked to the point of being magnetic, but the mirror surface has never developed any spotting.

 

[augiedoggy]

Augie, I think we agree on the same basic point about suppliers keeping their costs down. It's just more complicated then using 201 in place of 304.

These vessels are spun so they may be subjected to heavy cold working which leaves stress and can decrease corrosion resistance (but increases the vessel's strength). Annealing after forming may resolve this, but heating to 1900 degrees and water cooling, isn't inexepensive. Maybe the best domestic suppliers do this, I dunno, but these are some of the questions I'll ask before my next purchase.

Overall, I will say that surface finish seems to me to be the biggest factor in the minor corrosion I see on my equipment. I have many Triclover fittings and other, that I know are 304, in manufacture, they have been worked to the point of being magnetic, but the mirror surface has never developed any spotting.

Did you read the thread here were a guy actually tested the metalurgy of the concord kettles and found they were not 304 stainless at all but some other grade all together made in india by jindal? (Not 201 either if I remember right) again it didnt matter as far as application but still its not what its advertised as and I have read and been told the same thing about the bayou kettles I own. they are magnetic everywhere not just in spots which tells me they likely have more ferrous metal in them. I wouldnt hesitate to buy a 201 stainless chapman fermenter myself but its advertised as such.

I have seen the same results as you as far as finish... for example my stout conical is polished to a mirror finish. I have never see any rust on this. one of my other conicals is brushed and I have had mild surface rust that wiped right off. I have treated both with bar keepers friend more than once.

also I know the conical sections are welded together on some conicals and spun on others.. spikes are spun but I have a cheap no name stout clone which is definitely not as well as my AHB 12.5 gallon conical which was made overseas supposedly for the guy who designed the ones made by toledo metal spinning for spike. it works fine but its no work of art either.