Pumpking clone-Getting graham cracker flavor

[lilbova3]

Any recommendations on how to get the graham cracker flavor that is present in Pumpking without having to buy the graham cracker flavored drops.

I heard you can use the graham cracker drops in the secondary but don't care to purchase that for just one beer. I've heard of mashing graham crackers and after doing a little investigating someone said they have done that and got no graham cracker flavor.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[SavoryChef]

I mashed 5# graham crackers and two #10 cans of pumpkin in a 15 gallon batch and I have two things to say. 2# of rice hulls doesn't even come close to being enough and there was no graham cracker flavor. The flavor comes from extract.

 

[passedpawn]

Although I've been told this is totally wrong, I had an epiphany one day. I think it's not graham cracker but hazelnut. If you get some pumking and some hazelnut flavoring, you might agree.

BTW, some people did buy the Graham Cracker Flavoring and did not have success with it. I bought it and never used it.

 

[Beernik]

You could try some combo of brown sugar, molasses, cinnamon, and vanilla. Those are the main flavor ingredients of graham crackers.

 

[lilbova3]

Thanks for the help all. Maybe the hazelnut would work.

For the molasses, brown sugar an other spice mix do you recommend that in the mash or at the end of the boil?

 

[The10mmKid]

I used some Honey malt in mine.
It's on day-4 of fermentation

We'll have a taste in a few weeks . . . .

'da Kid

 

[passedpawn]

Just get something for the base beer at the store, like a Scottish 70, and start adding stuff until you get the flavor you're looking or. Then brew.

Maybe even a strong scotch ale.

 

[QuercusMax]

I've used Briess CaraBrown malt, which gives a graham-crackery flavor (both according to their description and my experience). It's a seasonal malt, though, so you may not be able to find it. It added a nice extra dimension to a hoppy American Brown ale.

 

[insanim8er]

You can read through the entire pumpking thread, but I think graham is all wrong...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/

There's a lot of years of people trying, but it hasn't been cloned, because most people are trying to add flavor through flavor aids (natural or artificial) when southern tier doesn't add any type of flavors to that beer. They get the flavor from spices. The question is what is the combination of spices they use???

I personally don't like it that much. I feel like it taste like a butter bomb. I would say it's more of a "buttered rum" kind of flavor than anything else. I read through the entire thread (because I saw the rating on the beer, but never had it at the time) After I tasted it, I stopped trying. Schlafly pumping beer is AMAZING. That's the pumpkin beer I want to clone.

Anyway, look at the label on Warlock:

And compare it to the Pumpking label:

No where does it say anything about artificial or natural flavors on the pumpking label. And you have to understand that there is little to no difference from ARTIFICIAL and NATURAL flavors. They're both flavor aids. The difference is how they create the compounds.

Almond flavor can be created via the compounds found in Banana and Vinegar (this would be considered artificial because they "Create" the compound even if it's from natural products.

The same compound can be created via peach pits, but this also incorporates arsenic. However, it's considered NATURAL even though it's more dangerous than the artificial.

 

[lilbova3]

I've looked at the Pumking thread but didn't want to go through it all. Got lazy. I have tried a good bit of pumpkins but haven't been lucky enough to try Schlafly. I really like Pumpking, Weyerbachers Imperial Pumpkin ale and Shipyards Smashed Pumpkin.

 

[insanim8er]

I've looked at the Pumking thread but didn't want to go through it all. Got lazy. I have tried a good bit of pumpkins but haven't been lucky enough to try Schlafly. I really like Pumpking, Weyerbachers Imperial Pumpkin ale and Shipyards Smashed Pumpkin.

Trust me, you're not missing out on much by not reading it all. It's a lot of "I GOT IT!!!!" then someone else tries it and said, "NO YOU DON'T" they're barking up the wrong tree in my opinion.

You have to do a bottle trade for some Schlafly. It's so damn good... I had Cigar city's Good Gourd too (only available in FL. my friend brought me up two bottles. It's so sought after they limit purchases to 1 bottle per customer and they lock it up behind the counters), but Schlafly is hands down the best pumpkin beer i've ever had.

Can you get a hold of elysian pumpkin? It's probably one of the better pumpking beer offerings (or at least the better ones that i've had) in the pacific northwest. It SORTA reminds me of schlafly, but it's definitely not.

 

[passedpawn]

There's a lot of years of people trying, but it hasn't been cloned, because most people are trying to add flavor through flavor aids (natural or artificial) when southern tier doesn't add any type of flavors to that beer. They get the flavor from spices. The question is what is the combination of spices they use???

Sweet! YOU GOT IT!

The Pumking label doesn't mention spices. How do you know?

Trust me, you're not missing out on much by not reading it all. It's a lot of "I GOT IT!!!!" then someone else tries it and said, "NO YOU DON'T"

That's so true. I don't think anyone there brewed a clone.

 

[insanim8er]

Sweet! YOU GOT IT!

The Pumking label doesn't mention spices. How do you know?

That's so true. I don't think anyone there brewed a clone.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index36.html#post5574875

I emailed the brew master... He told me.

Not all items need to be listed on labels, but flavor aids do.

But despite all that, those people posting on that thread don't believe it. They still think extracts are being used. They use pumpkin pie extract, butternut, graham... Im sure it's a simple recipe with simple ingredients. I bet a lot comes from the yeast too. I think they use Ringwood and stress it out because I definitely get the diacetyl. I seriously think it's a "buttered rum" beer.

 

[lilbova3]

Pumpking is sweet almost overly sweet but I think it works so well together. I get vanilla, cinnamon, graham cracker flavor when I drink it. Might just go with a small percent of biscuity malt and try to match the other spices.

I've never had Elysians or Cigar Citys but would love to try them.

 

[peterj]

I personally don't like it that much. I feel like it taste like a butter bomb. I would say it's more of a "buttered rum" kind of flavor than anything else. I read through the entire thread (because I saw the rating on the beer, but never had it at the time) After I tasted it, I stopped trying. Schlafly pumping beer is AMAZING. That's the pumpkin beer I want to clone.

I agree, I think Pumking is pretty gross. It's cloyingly sweet with a way over the top butter flavor. Kind of reminds me of butter flavored pancake syrup (which I also hate) except way more buttery. That's one of the few beers that I couldn't finish. I ended up pouring out about half the bomber both times I tried it (had to make sure it wasn't a bad bottle, so I bought it again the next year).

I think the flavor is so strong it's kind of a love it or hate thing. I guess there are a lot of people who do love it though.

I bet a lot comes from the yeast too. I think they use Ringwood and stress it out because I definitely get the diacetyl. I seriously think it's a "buttered rum" beer.

That's a pretty good idea. I would look into yeasts that produce a lot of diacetyl, and then look into ways of making them produce as much as they can without cleaning any up.

 

[passedpawn]

But despite all that, those people ...ut it in a beer. I threw it away after that.

 

[jigtwins]

I just had my first pumpking yesterday. At first smell I got clove,cinnamon,nutmeg,and something I couldn't put my finger on. Lots of clove. And very buttery flavor. I thought it was just ok. The pumpkin flavors did not really come thru. Very sweet, almost too sweet. I won't be purchasing this one again. FWIW the pumpkin ale I made last year was more balanced and had a pumpkin flavor. Without all the over the top spice.

 

[lilbova3]

One last idea for the graham cracker flavor, tell me what you think. What about adding graham cracker to the secondary? Not the liquid stuff, an actual graham cracker. You know how when you eat cereal and the flavor of the cereal gets in the milk and drinking the milk at the end is the best part. What about doing that here? Or maybe soak some graham crackers in vodka and then add them in? What do you think?

 

[FL_ABG_brewer77]

One last idea for the graham cracker flavor, tell me what you think. What about adding graham cracker to the secondary? Not the liquid stuff, an actual graham cracker. You know how when you eat cereal and the flavor of the cereal gets in the milk and drinking the milk at the end is the best part. What about doing that here? Or maybe soak some graham crackers in vodka and then add them in? What do you think?

This might work. a brewery here in Jacksonville, FL made a small 1 corny keg batch of a Christmas cookie beer where they soaked Christmas cookies in the beer. You got sort of a cookie taste, I think this might work. trying the vodka trick is a good idea in my opinion.

 

[lilbova3]

So I had Pumking last night and dont remembering it tasting like it did at all. Maybe its because im such a big IPA fan and I've been drinking a lot of those and maybe my taste buds have changed but it just didnt seem as good. With Pumking I'm looking for dessert in a drink. That's how I remember it and I liked the sweetness and spices to it. The aroma of Pumking is still great and you get some sweetness at the beginning but not as much as I remembered and then it faded and finished with no body, maltiness, or sweetness to me. It was also lacking the graham cracker flavor which is why I started this thread to begin with! It was a little upsetting but maybe I was going into this drink remembering how sweet it was, and I really wanted that sweetness like I said I wanted dessert in a drink, and this time it wasn't.

 

[ErieShores]

Don't use graham cracker extract, that's not it.

 

[lilbova3]

I didn't use it. I soaked some graham crackers in vodka and added the whole slurry to the secondary. We'll see how that turns out.

 

[lilbova3]

I popped a clone open yesterday and it tasted delicious! Just a reminder I want my pumpkin beers to be full of spice and taste like you are eating pumpkin pie or getting smacked in the face with pumpkin pie spices, and this surely delivered. This beer was only at 2 weeks of bottle conditioning, I rushed it because I really wanted to taste it, but I'm sure it will only get better with time. I definitely will be making this again next year, if not sooner.

 

[buzz1670]

I popped a clone open yesterday and it tasted delicious! Just a reminder I want my pumpkin beers to be full of spice and taste like you are eating pumpkin pie or getting smacked in the face with pumpkin pie spices, and this surely delivered. This beer was only at 2 weeks of bottle conditioning, I rushed it because I really wanted to taste it, but I'm sure it will only get better with time. I definitely will be making this again next year, if not sooner.

Can you give the recipe?

 

[lilbova3]

Here's the recipe. It's BIAB and I made a very small quantity because I didn't want to have too much of a pumpkin beer around even though it is one of my favorite types of beers. In fact, IT IS my favorite seasonal. So take notice to the scaled down recipe and adjust accordingly! I had a Samuel Adams Fat Jack the other night and my clone tastes more like that rather than Pumking I feel.

Batch size: 2 gallons (8.52 liters)
OG: 1.090
FG: 1.030 (didn't hit what I wanted but oh well, should be closer to 1.020 I believe)
IBU: 43 (Tinseth calculation)
ABV: 7.9%

7.5 lbs (3387 g) 2-Row
1 lb (455 g) American Victory
.38 lb (171 g) Caramel 60L
15 oz Canned pumpkin puree
.45 lb (204 g) Light Brown Sugar (60 min. boil)
.5 oz (14 g) Magnum Hops 15 AA% (50 min boil)
.5 oz (14 g) Sterling Hops 8.7 AA% (10 min boil)
2 g Fresh Grated Ginger (5 min boil)
2 g Cinnamon (5 min boil)
4-5 Whole Cloves (5 min boil) Literally 4-5 whole cloves, crushed
1 g Nutmeg (5 min boil)
1 g Allspice (5 min boil)
1 Vanilla bean soaked in vodka for a minimum of 2 weeks, cut in half after removed from the vodka and added to the secondary (10 days)
1 or 2 halves (however you want to look at it) graham cracker(s) soaked in vodka (this can be done as the beer is being transferred to secondary, no need to sit for an extended period of time) and whole graham cracker vodka slurry added to secondary (10 days)
Pumpkin pie spice (made from 1 tsp cinnamon, .5 tsp all spice, .5 tsp nutmeg, 2-3 whole cloves crushed, pinch of ginger) added to secondary (10 days)
Wyeast American Ale 1056 1.5-2 packages (b/c of higher OG), no starter

All grains and pumpkin puree go into the mash
Mash at 163* for 90 mins. (higher mash temp will help make ending beer sweeter)
Boil for 90 mins.
Cool between 68*-72*
Pitch yeast
Ferment for 5-10 days
Transfer to secondary and add secondary ingredients
Bottled using corn sugar
Popped open first bottle 2 weeks later, I think it will get better the longer they sit

Any questions, let me know.

 

[RandalG]

I've been chasing the elusive graham cracker flavor for a few years now with not much luck. Mashing graham crackers doesn't do it. I tried a beer for the first time the other day and it's the only other one I've found that has it too. Big Muddy Brewing Pumpkin Smasher. Worth checking out if you can find it in your area.