Pumpkin Beer Category at GABF- BS or not?

[jstuts2260]

A friend of mine who works for a local brewery is getting to be a judge at GABF this year. How sweet is that right? We started talking what categories she'd want and mentioned that Pumpkin Ale's would be the last on her list of priorities because she thinks it's a BS category.

Her claim is that you don't need pumpkin to make the beer pumpkiny. You can just make a strong amber and add pumpkin pie spices to make it seem like pumpkin pie.

I disagree. I think the adding of pumpkin to the mash makes a big difference in flavor with my pumpkin ale recipe.

Does anyone make a pumpkin ale without using pumpkin?

I'm brewing a 2nd batch of my pumpkin ale tomorrow night and will be doing a separate 1 gallon mini brew using the exact same grist, but not using pumpkin in the mash to test this theory.

Thoughts?

 

[JordanThomas]

Well, pumpkin mostly adds mouthfeel. Pumpkin is somewhat flavorless. Ever try it raw? Her claim isn't completely unfounded. It has some flavor, but mostly adds body and color.

Arcadia Jawjacker has no pumpkin in it. And it's very tasty, and reminds me of pumpkin baked goods.

Doesn't it normally fall in the fruit/vegetable beer category?

 

[jsv1204]

Interesting thread - going to brew a pumpkin ale this Saturday.

Just cracked open the first bottle of a batch of pumpkin oatmeal imperial stout that I did about 4 weeks ago. I overdid it on the spices (used 40 grams of ground spices) and found little pumpkinyness (with 5 lbs of canned pumpkin in the mash).

This time around, will use fresh pumpkin. I have not yet decided if I will oven roast and mash or boil and mash. I am inclined to roast (going for some carmelization of the pumpkin) but read about another method of boiling and reserving the boil liquid for the beer. Also going with much more pumpkin - up to 10 lbs.

As a side note, added spice to the boil for the stout, but will probably try adding whole or chopped spice as a "dry hop" to the secondary. Going for a spice nose and also found that the spices carried into the yeast bed - making the big barley wine that came next a spiced barley wine!

 

[jstuts2260]

Yes it typically does. But apparently this year they created a special category for it.

 

[IffyG]

I've brewed a pumpkin ale twice with the same recipe. The first year i added 3 cans of roast pumpkin to the boil and the second year I left it out entirely. My perception was that the pumpkin didn't do much other than make the beer cloudy. IMO, it's the spices that make a pumpkin beer a pumpkin beer.

 

[jsv1204]

I say keep the category. Given the evidence that this was used in place of other fermentables in colonial America, there should be a place for it. However, it should be truly pumpkin - like maybe a minimum % pumpkin in the grist. Throwing all-spice into a brown ale should not qualify.

 

[JordanThomas]

I say keep the category. Given the evidence that this was used in place of other fermentables in colonial America, there should be a place for it. However, it should be truly pumpkin - like maybe a minimum % pumpkin in the grist. Throwing all-spice into a brown ale should not qualify.

Just for fun (and somewhat because I like to argue... not the bad connotation, the legal one, where people discuss with various points and counter-points), wouldn't you have to create a category for each type of fruit/vegetable beer if you created one just for pumpkin?

Ginger beer
Chili beer
Cherry beer
Raspberry beer
Strawberry beer
Orange beer
Lemon beer
Lime beer
Watermelon beer
Sweet potato beer
Etc....

The categories would get out of sorts if you ask me!

 

[AmandaK]

I say keep the category. Given the evidence that this was used in place of other fermentables in colonial America, there should be a place for it. However, it should be truly pumpkin - like maybe a minimum % pumpkin in the grist. Throwing all-spice into a brown ale should not qualify.

What is this, Germany? And how are you going to prove that actual pumpkin was used? A lot of breweries don't even use pumpkin, they use squash or sweet potatoes. How does that fit in?

I say that it's GABF and they can do what they want. They're not following any set rules, or any category advice from the BJCP. Hell, they just have one category for "Session Beers".

 

[TyTanium]

Well, pumpkin mostly adds mouthfeel. Pumpkin is somewhat flavorless. Ever try it raw? Her claim isn't completely unfounded. It has some flavor, but mostly adds body and color.

I'm not convinced. I eat a lot of raw (well, cooked) pumpkin and find it's loaded with flavor. I was also surprised at how much of that distinct pumpkin flavor made it through to my final beer.

Yes, it adds mouthfeel for sure. And color, sure, though the malt would get it the right color anyway. But the pumpkin flavor is unmistakable.

Brewing a pumpkin beer w/out pumpkin just isn't right, IMO. You'd have to call it a pumpkin spice beer or something. Plus, what fun is a clean-running mash?

 

[JordanThomas]

I'm not convinced. I eat a lot of raw (well, cooked) pumpkin and find it's loaded with flavor. I was also surprised at how much of that distinct pumpkin flavor made it through to my final beer.

Yes, it adds mouthfeel for sure. And color, sure, though the malt would get it the right color anyway. But the pumpkin flavor is unmistakable.

Brewing a pumpkin beer w/out pumpkin just isn't right, IMO. You'd have to call it a pumpkin spice beer or something. Plus, what fun is a clean-running mash?

I did say that it adds SOME flavor, I just think it's so subtle that it can be completely omitted and most would have a hard time determining which had pumpkin and which did not. Have you tried Jolly Pumpkin La Parcela? I couldn't taste pumpkin at all.

I'd definitely agree, though, that it shouldn't be called a pumpkin beer without pumpkin. "Autumn spice" instead, maybe?

 

[amandabab]

I say that it's GABF and they can do what they want. They're not following any set rules, or any category advice from the BJCP.

this is a good thing.

 

[jsv1204]

wouldn't you have to create a category for each type of fruit/vegetable beer if you created one just for pumpkin?

The categories would get out of sorts if you ask me!

Good thought. My argument is based almost completely on the idea that the pumpkin contributes some significant amount of fermentables and is therefore more of a foundational component than a flavoring component.

And I would assume that this would be self-policed the same way every category is self-policed. Every entrant is assumed to have actually brewed the beer and to have done so on non-commercial equipment, for example. We are on our honor for that one and I think we could handle a stipulation like "pumpkin beer must actually have pumpkin in it". No Pumpkin Police!

 

[JordanThomas]

Good thought. My argument is based almost completely on the idea that the pumpkin contributes some significant amount of fermentables and is therefore more of a foundational component than a flavoring component.

And I would assume that this would be self-policed the same way every category is self-policed. Every entrant is assumed to have actually brewed the beer and to have done so on non-commercial equipment, for example. We are on our honor for that one and I think we could handle a stipulation like "pumpkin beer must actually have pumpkin in it". No Pumpkin Police!

Hmm... Well pumpkins hardly contain any fermentables. So while yes, there might be some fermentables, they aren't very significant in my eyes (~7% by weight - correct me if I'm wrong!).

 

[TyTanium]

Yup, my very rough estimates put pumpkin around 7 ppg. But that's gravity contribution, no idea how much of that is fermentable.

 

[jsv1204]

Picked up some fresh pumpkins a few days ago from a guy who claimed they were "very sweet, best for pie". From that I drew the conclusion that all pumpkins are not created equal.

Anyways, it becomes a matter of volume if there are any fermentable sugars generated in the mashing process. Its just a matter of how much pumpkin is required to generate sufficient sugar to bring X gallons of sweet wort to an acceptable SG.

I am beginning to get curious about what it would take to make an all-pumpkin beer. That would be one weird sparge...

 

[IffyG]

I am beginning to get curious about what it would take to make an all-pumpkin beer. That would be one weird sparge...

I don't even think it would be possible. A few pounds is enough to create pumpkin concrete in the bottom of a mashtun.

 

[Wayne1]

GABF Style Guidelines are completely different from BJCP Style Guidelines.

They have 84 main categories and there are sub categories.

For Category 5


5. Field Beer or Pumpkin Beer
A. Subcategory: Field Beer
Field beers are any beers using vegetables as an adjunct in any of the mash, kettle, primary or secondary fermentation, providing obvious (ranging from subtle to intense), yet harmonious, qualities. Vegetable qualities should not be overpowered by hop character.

For purposes of this competition, coconut is defined as a vegetable, and beers containing coconut would be appropriately entered in this category, unless they are highly experimental. Beers containing a fruit (e.g. juniper berry) or vegetable (e.g. the “heat” of chili pepper) with herbal or spice qualities would be more appropriately entered in the herb and spice beer category. A chili-flavored beer with notable roast or vegetable character, but no chili “heat”, would be appropriately entered as field beer. Beers containing pumpkin would be more appropriately entered in the pumpkin beer subcategory.

Clear or hazy beer is acceptable in appearance. To allow for accurate judging the brewer must list what vegetables are used, and may also list a classic style of base beer, or any other ingredients or processes used. Beer entries not accompanied by this information will be at a disadvantage during judging.

Original Gravity (ºPlato): 1.030-1.110 (7.5-26 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato): 1.006-1.030 (1.5-7.5 ºPlato) ● Alcohol by Weight (Volume): 2-10.5% (2.5-13.1%) ● Bitterness (IBU): 5-70 ● Color
SRM (EBC): 5-50 (10-100 EBC0

B. Subcategory: Pumpkin Beer
Pumpkin beers are any beers using pumpkins (Cucurbito pepo) as an adjunct in either mash, kettle, primary or secondary fermentation, providing obvious (ranging from subtle to intense), yet harmonious, qualities. Pumpkin qualities should not be overpowered by hop character. Entries in this subcategory may or may not be spiced or flavored with other ingredients; spiced entries that do not exhibit pumpkin character would be more appropriately entered as herb and spice beer. To allow for accurate judging the brewer must provide information about their entry; this information could include a classic style of base beer, and/or any other ingredients or processes used. Beer entries not accompanied by this information will be at a disadvantage during judging.

Original Gravity (ºPlato): 1.030–1.110 (7.5–26 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato): 1.006–1.030 (1.5–7.5 ºPlato) ● Alcohol by Weight (Volume): 2–9.5% (2.5–12%) ● Bitterness (IBU): 5–70 ● Color SRM (EBC): 5–50 (10–100 EBC)

The bolded description does state that spiced beers should not be entered in that category without being made with pumpkin

 

[tom_gamer]

I don't think it would be possible yo make an all pumpkin beer.

My reasoning:
Northern Brewer sells a pumpkin beer kit and suggest that if you want to include actual pumpkin to use about 10 lbs (medium pumpkin) with about 3 lbs of Rahr 6-row for the enzimes. Then mash for an hour.

Any thoughts?

 

[TyTanium]

If it's all pumpkin, it's no longer beer. Beer needs malt.

 

[tom_gamer]

If it's all pumpkin, it's no longer beer. Beer needs malt.

What if you malt the seeds?

 

[TyTanium]

What if you malt the seeds?

Haha, touché.

 

[jstuts2260]

God I'm so glad I started this thread! Very interesting. Especially that the GABF goes out to say that you should enter it as a spice beer category if it doesn't have pumpkin.

According to the Arcadia website they own up to the fact that there is no pumpkin in it and label it as a "Spice Beer" not a pumpkin. Which makes sense as I was drinking it earlier this week. I had not read the description and I have to say I was disappointed in the beer because all I could detect was spice. Not bad, but not what I want in a pumpkin beer.

I agree that adding pumpkin to the mash will add mouthfeel. There's no way that there is no flavor added to the finished product if the proper amount is added.

I ordered my specialty grains and will be brewing my two beers sometime next week (5 gallon pumpkin & 1 gallon with out pumpkin).

 

[amandabab]

God I'm so glad I started this thread! Very interesting. Especially that the GABF goes out to say that you should enter it as a spice beer category if it doesn't have pumpkin.

I'm glad they did it.