PSA: Foolproof Stuck-Ferment-Fixer

[duffman2]

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe you will get much of a flavor contribution from the yeast cake you will dump your beer onto. Most of the yeast flavor will be from the yeast you used to originally ferment your beer with.

Unless I'm wrong

Cheers

 

[jbrookeiv]

I have a stuck fermentation on my imperial stout. Used WLP060. OG = 1.103. Gravity is stuck at 1.036 for a week now. My buddy is going to be racking off his pale ale yeast cake and he used the same WLP060 strain. Will racking on to his cake have any taste effects? It seems the perfect situation for racking onto an existing cake to fix a stuck fermentation. I didnt read anywhere that racking on to a different yeast cake would alter taste or not.

I have already tried adding a yeast nutrient/Dextrose, swirling the yeast on bottom and warming up the wort.

Thanks

If it's the same yeast, what are you worried about? I think any off flavors, if any, will be covered up by the full flavor of an Imperial Stout anyway.

 

[Broken]

If it's the same yeast, what are you worried about? I think any off flavors, if any, will be covered up by the full flavor of an Imperial Stout anyway.

Thats what I am hoping.

 

[sfrisby]

So if you are just dumping onto the old yeast cake, trub and all, has anyone noticed any negative reactions to a new beer sitting on old trub. "They" say part of the reason to secondary is to get the beer off the trub. Maybe the logic is since its a new beer on old trub, the clock starts over before the trub effects the beer.

Any thoughts?

 

[wyzazz]

So if you are just dumping onto the old yeast cake, trub and all, has anyone noticed any negative reactions to a new beer sitting on old trub. "They" say part of the reason to secondary is to get the beer off the trub. Maybe the logic is since its a new beer on old trub, the clock starts over before the trub effects the beer.

Any thoughts?

That's the "Old" school of thought, there aren't too many of us that think that way anymore. I let my beers sit on the trub in primary for AT LEAST 3 weeks before I even think of moving them.

 

[starrfish]

That's the "Old" school of thought, there aren't too many of us that think that way anymore. I let my beers sit on the trub in primary for AT LEAST 3 weeks before I even think of moving them.

+1 I've had no ill effects I don't do it often but if I'm racking and putting another down up to a day later seems to be fine. Campden tabs or water purification tabs could kill off any unwanted bacteria but leave the yeast uneffected. Northern Brewer sells both. A bit of starsan would also work, I've used that when washing yeast once. IF your a worrier.

 

[Broken]

I have a stuck fermentation on my imperial stout. Used WLP060. OG = 1.103. Gravity is stuck at 1.036 for a week now. My buddy is going to be racking off his pale ale yeast cake and he used the same WLP060 strain. Will racking on to his cake have any taste effects? It seems the perfect situation for racking onto an existing cake to fix a stuck fermentation. I didnt read anywhere that racking on to a different yeast cake would alter taste or not.

I have already tried adding a yeast nutrient/Dextrose, swirling the yeast on bottom and warming up the wort.

Thanks

Well I dont know how well this worked for me. My OG only dropped to 1.033 from 1.036 over the week. It has been static since. I just transfered to secondary. I hope it is just done, it should have finished out around 1.024.

 

[apk]

I just tried this with a stuck stout.

The beer was was at 1.030 after 4 weeks in primary, and dropped maybe a point or two when I tried keeping it in slightly warmer temperatures for a week and half. I was transferring a Kolsch out of primary, and thought "what the heck?" and racked the stout on top of the cake. I checked it three days later, and it had dropped to 1.024. I'll check it again this weekend, but I think it's on its way to finishing out around 1.020-1.021. I tasted the sample, and the yeast didn't seem to have much of an effect on the flavor (not that I'd really notice in the stout...).

Thanks for the tip!

 

[sfrisby]

Another vote for this method. Had an OG of 1.10, racked onto a Nottingham cake and it finished at 1.024. Just fine considering the OG.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Just found this thread, given my current stuck fermentation - see thread here...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/stuck-fermentation-w-1056-a-242554/

Any way, what about a modified version of this method? Brew up a small (~1 gal) batch of just a basic 2-row Pale. No hops, just a simple deal done with a cheese-cloth bag. Get that going as quick as possible in a 6 gallon container, and once it's good and frothy, vigorously pour the stuck 5-gallon batch into it. Yes, no, maybe?

What OG should I aim for with the small batch? 1.030 like a typical starter, or get it up high (~1.060) to get more vigorous activity going?

 

[jbrookeiv]

Just found this thread, given my current stuck fermentation - see thread here...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/stuck-fermentation-w-1056-a-242554/

Any way, what about a modified version of this method? Brew up a small (~1 gal) batch of just a basic 2-row Pale. No hops, just a simple deal done with a cheese-cloth bag. Get that going as quick as possible in a 6 gallon container, and once it's good and frothy, vigorously pour the stuck 5-gallon batch into it. Yes, no, maybe?

What OG should I aim for with the small batch? 1.030 like a typical starter, or get it up high (~1.060) to get more vigorous activity going?

I'd probably shoot for 1.040. You're essentially making a large starter. If you want even more growth, grab an aquarium pump and aeration stone from your local pet store, should run you about $15 total. That'll send the yeasties into uber-reproduction mode.

 

[Apt23Brewery]

Just had my first stop, and I ended up adding 1lb of corn sugar, (I'm a rookie so forgive any mistake). Question for everyone. How do you save a yeast cake? Wouldn't this get contaminated when left exsposed to air?

 

[Prymal]

I might just have to try this, I have a 1.104 RIS that stopped at 1.034 and I really wanted it down to 1.025 at least. I have an S04 DIPA that should be done in about a week maybe ill wait and give it a try.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I might just have to try this, I have a 1.104 RIS that stopped at 1.034 and I really wanted it down to 1.025 at least. I have an S04 DIPA that should be done in about a week maybe ill wait and give it a try.

I'm not sure which "this" you're referring to, but the thing that totally worked for me was the amalyze enzyme. I just had a bottle of the beer I saved with this stuff last night, and it's actually turned out to be one of my best ever. Hard to imagine I was ready to dump this batch.

 

[bruin_ale]

Reviving this thread as I just did this with great success (for the previous poster - "this" is racking a stuck ferment on top of a healthy yeast cake from another batch)

I brewed a Belgian golden strong with an OG of 1.09 (including the 2lbs of sugar I added near the end of the ferment) and a Saison on back to back weeks. WLP570 for the BGS and Wyeast 3711 for the Saison. I think the rest of the story tells itself, but after three weeks the BGS was stuck at 1.025 and the Saison (at 2 weeks) was at 1.000 (yeah, freaky 3711). Since they were very similar beers to begin with, the choice was a no brainer. Racked the Saison to a keg to condition for a few more weeks and rack the BGS onto the healthy cake of 3711. It started bubbling almost right away (could have been CO2 coming out of solution, but hard to say) - a mini krausen in a few hours and now 5 days later its down to 1.01 and tastes awesome! Still bubbling slowly, should be ready to cold crash mid next week I hope.

I wasn't intending the Saison as a backup yeast cake when I brewed it but I probably couldn't have chosen a better yeast given the circumstances.

 

[bgs8884]

i just made a BPA and pitched it on top of a previous batch made with trappist ale 500 yeast. Ive read a few dozen posts about dumping on top of a previous batch yeast cake and how that i should measure it out. I read that by pouring onto a yeast cake will result in an active fermentation within hours and i should use a blowoff tube.

its been 24-30 hours so far and still no bubblin in the airlock. is this a time to worry or am i just being impatient

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

its been 24-30 hours so far and still no bubblin in the airlock. is this a time to worry or am i just being impatient

If it's not re-started today, I'd be thinking about a "Plan B". Note my comments above about using amalyze enzyme to successfully re-energize a stuck fermentation. I won't even bother with any other method in the future - this was too simple and effective.

 

[bgs8884]

If it's not re-started today, I'd be thinking about a "Plan B". Note my comments above about using amalyze enzyme to successfully re-energize a stuck fermentation. I won't even bother with any other method in the future - this was too simple and effective.

I spoke too soon. When i left this morning, the air lock was bubbling like crazy. Took closer to 36-40 hours, but it is going strong now. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Karkinos]

This worked great for me. I didn't see any air lock activity (I didn't watch it, either), but I checked the gravity after two days and mine moved from .020 to .017. Brew Target told me to anticipate .016 for a finish, so I'm pretty happy. I'm going to let it sit for another few days and see if it get to 16 or lower.

 

[DerrangedPOJO]

I just had a witbier stuck at 1.020. Actually bottled the stuff before i realized it was really at 1.020. So i continued to bottle. Yes i had caps blow off. I did take precaution and put in a closed container. So i re put back into carboy and added amylase enzyme and for a week now it has been bubbling away. Will edit once i take a gravity reading in probably another week give or take 2 days or so.

Ok it has now dropped about 12 points. Still has activity of fermentation so going to check n a week.

 

[CeeTee]

Question for you all. I have a Marzen that I tried a new yeast with Safbrew33. After pitching, I read it is prone to not finishing. After two days of healthy airlock activity, it stopped at 1.02... 7 points short and it is disgustingly sweet. So I raised temps up to 75 and roused the cake. Still nothing. It's a traditional Marzen ale.

I also have a Hefeweizen bubbling with a WLP380 yeast. My question is, if I pitch the Marzen onto the Hefeweizen yeast cake, will it ruin my Marzen? I mean, I'm pretty sure it will change the flavor, but will it be disgusting? The Marzen is a simple amber color with slight caramel notes and a little roast/chocolate. I used Perle hops to about 25 IBUs. Not sure if this will be good like a Dunkel, or just taste horrible...

 

[IrishBrewer74]

I will be using this method to salvage a confirmed stuck Oktoberfest with Wyeast Kolsch... It petered out at 1.030 (from 1.072). I'll be racking onto a pale ale cake made with Safale 05. Should I cold crash my pale ale first to get a nice yeast cake? My concern is that I will be doing this shortly after the pale ale is done because I have farted around enough with the Oktoberfest i don't want to further risk an infection, and that there won't be much of a yeast cake there to pitch onto.

Would this cause temperature shock to the yeast? I was thinking maybe cold crashing the pale ale, then letting it come back to room temp before racking.

Thoughts?

 

[DeadGuyNick]

Just found this thread and I'm planning on trying it. Got an IPA that is sitting at 1.020 after almost 3 weeks in primary, supposed to be 1.010 according to Brew Smith. The estimated OG was supposed to be around 1.065, but I ended with 1.046. I was thinking of adding honey after fermentation tapered off, but didn't. Not sure if that plays a role in the reading I got.

Anyway, I also brewed a porter that hit the FG pretty spot on, and I used the same yeast for both (WLP001). When I rack the porter off the cake, do I then just add the IPA, or do I need to wash the cake first? I've never done anything like that before.

I just dry hopped yesterday, so the IPA is gonna sit for at least another week, so I can check it again to see if it goes down a bit more. I'm also going to try and raise the temp just a little bit to get those yeast happy. I assume the porter is fine to sit on the cake until then? It's ready to bottle but I want to try and keep that cake in case the IPA is truly stuck.

EDIT: Never mind! I must've missed the post that answered this question. Gonna test my IPA today, it might be fine. Otherwise I'll give it some new life, hopefully.

 

[doublebogey10]

This method certainly makes a ton of sense. To re-ask a question, flavors from first beer's yeast cake don't really impact on the second beer?
I have a brown ale stuck at 1.021 that I used Windsor Ale Yeast (meant to grab Notty -- packages look similar) on. But it's not moving after two weeks.
I have a White IIPA ready to keg that was pretty aggressively hopped (~95 IBUs) that I used US05 on.
So, need to make a decision on adding a new yeast starter to the brown ale and hope that gets it starter. Or rack on top of the White IIPA cake that had a neutral yeast but probably has a strong hop character lurking in the yeast cake that I might not want in the brown. I guess the unknown is how much hop character transference would happen.

 

[brownrice]

Does it have to be a yeast cake? Can I get a bucket of yeast from a local brewery and just pour it in?

 

[Rockn_M]

Does it have to be a yeast cake? Can I get a bucket of yeast from a local brewery and just pour it in?

A bucket maybe a bit much but you can use a pint of yeast slurry or more depending on the OG.


Sent from my kegerator

 

[jamenking]

Sorry gang, but I'm going to make another Frankenstein out of this post...

I have a 5 gal pilsener stuck at 1.020 after 3 wks. OG = 1.056, 1L starter of WLP802 Czech Budejovice, fermented at 52F. 1 wk ago fermentation was slowing, and I raised the temperature to 62F for a diacetyl rest. 3 days ago I poured dry CBC-1 on it, but it hasn't budged.

This might be pushing the limits of "the cake won't affect the flavor," but would anyone dare rack a stuck pils over a dry cider trub? I only ask because I have a primary with Lalvin 71B that has been going strong on some apple juice for the last 2 weeks, and I'm about to rack it to secondary. It would be easy to put the pils on top of the leftover cake... Or would I make apple pilsener?

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry gang, but I'm going to make another Frankenstein out of this post...

I have a 5 gal pilsener stuck at 1.020 after 3 wks. OG = 1.056, 1L starter of WLP802 Czech Budejovice, fermented at 52F. 1 wk ago fermentation was slowing, and I raised the temperature to 62F for a diacetyl rest. 3 days ago I poured dry CBC-1 on it, but it hasn't budged.

This might be pushing the limits of "the cake won't affect the flavor," but would anyone dare rack a stuck pils over a dry cider trub? I only ask because I have a primary with Lalvin 71B that has been going strong on some apple juice for the last 2 weeks, and I'm about to rack it to secondary. It would be easy to put the pils on top of the leftover cake... Or would I make apple pilsener?

Not sure what CBC-1 does. This is from Lallemand's site:

CBC-1 is a killer yeast, meaning it will secrete a toxic protein that can inhibit killer sensitive strains (most brewing strains are killer sensitive). While this is a positive yeast trait when conducting a pure fermentation/refermentation with CBC-1, extra care should be taken to ensure proper cleaning procedures are in place to avoid any cross-contamination with other brews.

The other thing is that most Wine yeasts aren't able to metabolize maltotriose, one of the more difficult sugars to ferment which may be abundant in a stalled fermentation.

 

[rmyurick]

Sorry gang, but I'm going to make another Frankenstein out of this post...

I have a 5 gal pilsener stuck at 1.020 after 3 wks. OG = 1.056, 1L starter of WLP802 Czech Budejovice, fermented at 52F. 1 wk ago fermentation was slowing, and I raised the temperature to 62F for a diacetyl rest. 3 days ago I poured dry CBC-1 on it, but it hasn't budged.

This might be pushing the limits of "the cake won't affect the flavor," but would anyone dare rack a stuck pils over a dry cider trub? I only ask because I have a primary with Lalvin 71B that has been going strong on some apple juice for the last 2 weeks, and I'm about to rack it to secondary. It would be easy to put the pils on top of the leftover cake... Or would I make apple pilsener?

I think I would just keg it as is. You're probably not going to improve it at this point.

 

[jamenking]

I think I would just keg it as is. You're probably not going to improve it at this point.

Bummer. Okay, thanks.

 

[rmyurick]

Bummer. Okay, thanks.

I had a dubbel that finished high, I added some alpha amylase and let it ferment for a while, bottled when I thought it was done. The problem is that it keeps going, slowly. Ended up with gushers, and I think it tasted better when it was sweet. It took away a lot of the maltiness. I bet if you finish that beer now, it's going to be pretty good, even if it didn't hit the numbers.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

I just keep a supply of TYB Dry Belgian around. If that can't finish a stuck fermentation I can't imagine that anything outside of Hornindal could. Both are absolute beasts.

 

[jamenking]

Thanks everyone for your replies and encouragement.

Unfortunately this beer is much to sticky sweet for me to enjoy as is... Upon reviewing my notes from brew day I found that the mash temperature was more like 160 F, not the 154 F it should have been. It turnrs out brand new Igloo coolers don't lose much heat in 60 min. So I think we should blame maltotriose for the high SG, and I'm leaning toward playing with fire and pitching some alpha amylase. So as not to overdo it, how much would you add to a 5 gal batch?

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Thanks everyone for your replies and encouragement.

Unfortunately this beer is much to sticky sweet for me to enjoy as is... Upon reviewing my notes from brew day I found that the mash temperature was more like 160 F, not the 154 F it should have been. It turnrs out brand new Igloo coolers don't lose much heat in 60 min. So I think we should blame maltotriose for the high SG, and I'm leaning toward playing with fire and pitching some alpha amylase. So as not to overdo it, how much would you add to a 5 gal batch?

Your best hope at this point is to use something like a French saison yeast. From what I've read some saison and Belgian strains are killer neutral and if anything can chomp through leftover sugars it's gonna be that. I wonder if the WLP802 is a saaz yeast, which would mean that it just can't utilize maltotriose.

 

[IslandLizard]

Your best hope at this point is to use something like a French saison yeast. From what I've read some saison and Belgian strains are killer neutral and if anything can chomp through leftover sugars it's gonna be that. I wonder if the WLP802 is a saaz yeast, which would mean that it just can't utilize maltotriose.

To resurrect a stalled fermentation, he would have to make a fairly large active starter and pitch that at high krausen and raise the temps to at least 74F, possibly higher.

On the Saison spectrum, WY3711 or Belle Saison (dry, needs rehydration and a starter) contain Sacch. Cerevisiae var. Diastaticus, a tenacious attenuator to which maltotriose forms little challenge, although dextrins remain Brett and Amylase territory. Still, getting a beer resurrected takes a large active pitch and then patience.

Mash temps at 160F surely create havoc with fermentability. I do Milds in that range, but no good for most beers, especially Lagers.

I never thought of 802 being a Saaz yeast, but now you said it...

 

[jamenking]

Your best hope at this point is to use something like a French saison yeast. From what I've read some saison and Belgian strains are killer neutral and if anything can chomp through leftover sugars it's gonna be that. I wonder if the WLP802 is a saaz yeast, which would mean that it just can't utilize maltotriose.

Thanks for the tip on TYB Dry Belgian. The more I read about amylase the less I like the idea of pitching it because it sounds like I would be asking for exploding bottles in the long run, or too low FG.

Another option I had not thought of - brew a second batch at lower mash temps and let it go to a very low FG, then blend the two to taste. Has anyone tried something like that?

 

[Comfort_Zone]

To resurrect a stalled fermentation, he would have to make a fairly large active starter and pitch that at high krausen and raise the temps to at least 74F, possibly higher.

On the Saison spectrum, WY3711 or Belle Saison (dry, needs rehydration and a starter) contain Sacch. Cerevisiae var. Diastaticus, a tenacious attenuator to which maltotriose forms little challenge, although dextrins remain Brett and Amylase territory. Still, getting a beer resurrected takes a large active pitch and then patience.

Mash temps at 160F surely create havoc with fermentability. I do Milds in that range, but no good for most beers, especially Lagers.

I never thought of 802 being a Saaz yeast, but now you said it...

At the abv he's looking at a large starter isn't needed. Also, by definition a diastatic yeast will take care of most dextrins because they express some form of amylase. More important than pure cell counts is pitching a more robust yeast during active fermentation. I've restarted beers above 10% using some of the more ismotolerant yeasts without doing a giant starter.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Thanks for the tip on TYB Dry Belgian. The more I read about amylase the less I like the idea of pitching it because it sounds like I would be asking for exploding bottles in the long run, or too low FG.

Another option I had not thought of - brew a second batch at lower mash temps and let it go to a very low FG, then blend the two to taste. Has anyone tried something like that?

Too low of an FG can certainly be an issue however it does produce a lot of glycerol like French saison yeast does. If you hadn't pitched some killer yeast I would've suggested using a steam beer yeast or chico. You could certainly blend a bone dry beer into it to help balance things out.

 

[jamenking]

Too low of an FG can certainly be an issue however it does produce a lot of glycerol like French saison yeast does. If you hadn't pitched some killer yeast I would've suggested using a steam beer yeast or chico. You could certainly blend a bone dry beer into it to help balance things out.

A couple hrs ago I cooked up a 2L starter of rehydrated Belle Saison. I will pitch it once it looks really active. I usually cold crash and decant starters so as to just pitch the yeast slurry. Okay in this case?

The website recommends 68F. Any reason to go warmer?

 

[Comfort_Zone]

A couple hrs ago I cooked up a 2L starter of rehydrated Belle Saison. I will pitch it once it looks really active. I usually cold crash and decant starters so as to just pitch the yeast slurry. Okay in this case?

The website recommends 68F. Any reason to go warmer?

That should be perfectly fine.