Proteins/Aminos, protein rests, and beer body

[Smellyglove]

The problem was not the mash regimen, it was he was either below gelatinization temps or too short on time, or both. Thereby not getting all the beta, and leaving the beer sweet. It's telling when he talks about crispness.

In regards to your beer, can I get some more info like recipe and malts, etc?

Its 70% wheat, 27% pilsner, both from Castle Malting, and 3% Caramunich 3, from Weyermann.

I do a herrmann-mash, a maltase mash.. I use a herms which ramps temps with about 1.25C/min. I step past the proteolytic range.

Dough in 43, hold for 15 min, step up to 63, hold for 50ish, step to 72, hold for 30. then comes the herrmann mash which is basically the same but it starts at 38C. I use 1/2 of my water the first round, with 1/3 of the grist. Second rounds i add rest of water and malt.

Last batch i just did a plain mash like most people do, strike to acheive 50, hold for 15, then the 63, 72, mashout.

sulfate chloride about 21PPM of each, last batch hade 21/34, adding phosforic acid to reach about 5.5 pH. Last ones were boiled for 120 minutes. Mashing takes about 2.5-4 hours, cant remember.

I thought he said that the beer was to full in one beer, etc.. because of the mash.

 

[rabeb25]

Ah yes, the infamous Herrmann Maischverfahrens
Don't acidify your hefe's, especially in the 4VG rest area, 4VG likes higher pH.

I have to ask, are you brewing low oxygen? Before low oxygen all my beers were thin.

My hefe weissbier is pretty simple like your as well. 50% wheat, 45% pils, and 5% carahell.

I don't Herrmann, its not very low oxygen friendly, but I do dough in at 45c and hold for about 45 minutes (again high pH), then ramp though at 1c/min to 62 for 20, 64-20, 66-20, 72-30, then 77-10. I shoot for 13p.

I don't add sulfate either, 40ppm ca, a dash of nacl, and thats it. I use the same water for all styles.

The key is to mash the beer (every beer for that matter) that will finish lower than what you want to, say I want my hefe to finish at 2.5p. I will mash it to finsih at 1.5p but stop it before it gets there. This leaves a little residual extract to "back sweeten" the beer and give it the proper amount of crisp finish, but a little body and sweetness. The key here is matching the remaining extract to the style of beer as it will vary. Which is not the same as mashing for the beer to finish at 2.5, and no residual sugar, as it will be too dry.

Hopping is important, as is a nice soft boil to preserve those lovely fresh malt characters. So low hops (NO late hops) and a soft boil (target under 8%).

Lastly no force carbing.

A lot of this is probably not worth mentioning if you are cunning enough to know what the Herrmann Maischverfahrens is.

 

[Smellyglove]

Ah yes, the infamous Herrmann Maischverfahrens
Don't acidify your hefe's, especially in the 4VG rest area, 4VG likes higher pH.

I have to ask, are you brewing low oxygen? Before low oxygen all my beers were thin.

My hefe weissbier is pretty simple like your as well. 50% wheat, 45% pils, and 5% carahell.

I don't Herrmann, its not very low oxygen friendly, but I do dough in at 45c and hold for about 45 minutes (again high pH), then ramp though at 1c/min to 62 for 20, 64-20, 66-20, 72-30, then 77-10. I shoot for 13p.

I don't add sulfate either, 40ppm ca, a dash of nacl, and thats it. I use the same water for all styles.

The key is to mash the beer (every beer for that matter) that will finish lower than what you want to, say I want my hefe to finish at 2.5p. I will mash it to finsih at 1.5p but stop it before it gets there. This leaves a little residual extract to "back sweeten" the beer and give it the proper amount of crisp finish, but a little body and sweetness. The key here is matching the remaining extract to the style of beer as it will vary. Which is not the same as mashing for the beer to finish at 2.5, and no residual sugar, as it will be too dry.

Hopping is important, as is a nice soft boil to preserve those lovely fresh malt characters. So low hops (NO late hops) and a soft boil (target under 8%).

Lastly no force carbing.

A lot of this is probably not worth mentioning if you are cunning enough to know what the Herrmann Maischverfahrens is.

I don't do any water adjustments until im almost up to 63C on the second round, so the whole first round and the maltase-rest is high-pH.

I don't do LoDo. I felt it just was to much for me. But the only time my wort is being "splashed" is when i run it off into my BK through the spigot, so it is in the open until the level rises above the spigot. I don't add SMB, or use a mash cap, or preboil, even though I heat it up way beyond strike temp, but often the night before.. maybe not much help there. But I know this is not where the problem lies. I can perfectly do a full beer, but I don't want to "cheat". I want to challenge myself into making as good hefe as I can with that water profile. There's a lot to it in the mash (which I'm trying to figure out), but half of it is in the packaging. You need the perfect amount of yeast into bottles, too much and the beer gets too thick, to little, and the beer ends up to thin. I feel I got the yeast-thing down, but that I'm lacking in the mash.

I do the same mash for every hefe, unless I'm expermimenting. I know bang on where they will end up. (I do SG, not plato), so 1.012 for first and second gen, and 1.013 for third gen. I need to get a microcope.

My boil off is at about 8.8% on this beer, nice mellow boil, I add speise directly to the bottles, no secondary of any kind what so ever, targeting 7g/l co2.

I've edited this a few times now, if you have read, pls read it again.

 

[rabeb25]

I just circle back to my original question of low oxygen. I will say again that my beers always came our thinner than the real German counter parts. All problems solved when I changed that.

You really need to get that beer dryer, if you test any commercial (German) examples they will always be 1.010 or below.

Good luck.

 

[Smellyglove]

Thanks for you help.

 

[Smellyglove]

I just circle back to my original question of low oxygen. I will say again that my beers always came our thinner than the real German counter parts. All problems solved when I changed that.

You really need to get that beer dryer, if you test any commercial (German) examples they will always be 1.010 or below.

Good luck.

I just tasted another one... Second batch with a tad differenct grist and finally a proper carbonation.. After tasting the last batch a few days ago, after altering a few stuff to enhance mouthfeel, and it still felt thin-ish, I got pretty bummed. The beer it self tasted awful, took is as bad yeast management, and it felt not much fuller than previous batches.. Also bought beer tasted pretty off right after I finished work...

Hear this.. I'd been eating a load of cheap over-salted popcorn the last few hours during work. My palate was WAY off.

Popped another one just recently, and I'm getting there. Not bad. I think I need more time in the bottle, even though hefe is supposed to be fresh, but I package pretty early so I feel it just needs som more time in the bottle.