pros and cons bottling/kegging

[400d]

ok people, I brewed and bottled 13th batch of beer in my life in last year (more than one batch per month).

since I bottle in 0.5 l bottles this means that I washed, sanitized, rinsed and filled 650 bottles!

I'm sick of it

yesterday I bought my first draught beer system from a guy that used to have a bar. while I'm waiting for the equipment to arrive I wanted to discuss some things. I admit that I don't know anything about kegging. The guy who is selling it to me promised to give me instructions.

He said that it is very important that I call people from the brewery to maintain my system (clean and sanitize). I live very close to brewery but can't I do this by myself?

this is how it looks:

I have two taps which means I can have two kegs of different beer on tap, which is very good. The system has "water cooling", whatever it means.

I have some questions on this:

- by now I would wait approx. 4 weeks in primary, than bottle and wait for it to mellow another 4 weeks. but now what? should I wait for 4 weeks in primary, than transfer to secondary for another 4 weeks to mellow and then keg?

-can I transfer the beer from secondary/primary to a keg, seal the keg and wait for a longer time before introducing CO2 to it? If this kind of "storing" beer in a keg without CO2 is possible, than for how long can I store it like this before adding CO2 to it?

-when I force carbonate, for how long can I serve this beer from a keg?

-how to clean and sanitize this keg?? this is what I fear the most. it seems there is only this small opening on top of it. how the hell is this thing cleaned!?

thanks

 

[Clonefarmer]

You can clean your lines and taps yourself. No need to have a brewery come out and do it. I use a keg with Starsan in it to flush the lines. The taps get removed and cleaned in between kegs.

Wait your normal time in primary/secondary than keg. If you are force carbing there is no need to wait for the keg to condition. Some bigger beers may need time to mellow out.

You can store the beer in kegs as long as you purge the head space with CO2. They will keep for quite a while like this.

You can keep a keg on tap for quite some time as long as it stays at serving temp.

Most homebrewers don't use that type of keg. You need to have a keg washer or remove the dip tube on those. Most of us use the old soda kegs.

 

[pcollins]

Everything clonefarmer said is spot on.

I've got this kind of keg, it's called a sankey keg. You can and should remove the spear occasionally in order to clean but you can get away with just using the coupling head to open the valve.

What I do is remove all the lines and check valves from the coupling head and pour hot water in the top outlet. Remove the coupling head and shake the keg around to give it a good rinse. To drain, just turn it upside down in the sink and the water will come out the gas in line. Do this a few times. Do the same thing with your chosen cleaner and sanitizer and then rinse and you're off to the races.

For filling it I just siphoned into the beer out line through the coupling head, hooked it up to co2 and purged the keg a couple of times and set and forget.

Check out the chart in the sticky at the top of the kegging forum for psi settings. My fridge is right around 4ºC and I set the regulator for 10-12psi and it's working like a charm.

I had one week in primary, one week in secondary and I've been drinking the beer from the keg with less than a week on co2. It is definitely getting better daily but was quite drinkable after a few days.

 

[schmagy]

Ur gonna love kegging! Cleaning that bugger isn't too bad, using one of the good cleaners like PBW, Oxyclean, or SUN (Walmart) which attack the organic materials and follow with sanitizer. Just like cleaning a carboy, only you cant see as much.

 

[400d]

what confuses me a lot is the claim of the guy who sold this system to me, that one keg should be consumed in 3-5 days.

of course, this guy was not a home brewer, but owner of the bar using only commercial beers.

I also read the instruction manual from local brewery where they say that the beer bought from them in a keg should be consumed in 3 days.

Now, is this only a marketing trick, or they really have a reason to advise so?

The other thing that confuses me is the possibility of "storing" beer in a keg for a longer time (2 - 3 months) before force carbonating. Is this advisable?

 

[SumnerH]

what confuses me a lot is the claim of the guy who sold this system to me, that one keg should be consumed in 3-5 days.

of course, this guy was not a home brewer, but owner of the bar using only commercial beers.

I also read the instruction manual from local brewery where they say that the beer bought from them in a keg should be consumed in 3 days.

If you're using a hand pump (as people do when they buy a keg for a party), you're pumping air into the beer to serve it. As soon as you do that, oxidation begins and you need to finish the beer within a few days or it'll go stale.

If you're using a CO2 push (as homebrewing keg setups do), no oxygen enters the beer. You can take at least months to finish it with no problems.

The other thing that confuses me is the possibility of "storing" beer in a keg for a longer time (2 - 3 months) before force carbonating. Is this advisable?

Yeah, that's fine; many people use the keg as a secondary. When you fill it, purge the headspace with CO2 and set the keg aside for however long you want to age it.

Treat it like you would bottled beer--you don't want to let it get too hot or have dramatic temperature swings.

 

[400d]

If you're using a hand pump (as people do when they buy a keg for a party), you're pumping air into the beer to serve it. As soon as you do that, oxidation begins and you need to finish the beer within a few days or it'll go stale.

If you're using a CO2 push (as homebrewing keg setups do), no oxygen enters the beer. You can take at least months to finish it with no problems.



Yeah, that's fine; many people use the keg as a secondary. When you fill it, purge the headspace with CO2 and set the keg aside for however long you want to age it.

Treat it like you would bottled beer--you don't want to let it get too hot or have dramatic temperature swings.

very useful information. thanks!

 

[ajwillys]

Um, that looks like a glycol chiller in that picture. Were you aware of that? Those are used to chill the lines from the walk-in fridge (where the kegs are) to the taps. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure this is what you want. Normally, you would us a refrigerator or freezer to chill your kegs.

Now, that would be perfect for creating a jacketed conical for temperature controlled fermenations. It is certainly a drool worthy piece of equipment.

Or maybe I'm just seeing something wrong?

 

[400d]

Um, that looks like a glycol chiller in that picture. Were you aware of that? Those are used to chill the lines from the walk-in fridge (where the kegs are) to the taps. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure this is what you want. Normally, you would us a refrigerator or freezer to chill your kegs.

Now, that would be perfect for creating a jacketed conical for temperature controlled fermenations. It is certainly a drool worthy piece of equipment.

Or maybe I'm just seeing something wrong?

no you're not seeing wrong, it's a cooler that chills the beer on the way through the cooler using cold water.

so, I have to pour some water in it.

I do not chill the keg - the beer is chilled in the tubing that goes through the cooler. cool thing!

 

[ajwillys]

Ah, in that case very cool and I can't wait to see how you implement it!

 

[whale]

with this type of chiller, you will have harder time carbing your beer. (room temperature) you might consider buying a fridge to go with it.

 

[steinsato]

Instead of buying a fridge to cool your kegs you could keep your current setup, forget about force carbing and just use priming sugar to carbonate your kegs.

 

[400d]

Instead of buying a fridge to cool your kegs you could keep your current setup, forget about force carbing and just use priming sugar to carbonate your kegs.

do I need CO2 bottle in this case at all?

 

[steinsato]

Yes. You would need it to push the beer out, and to keep O2 out of the kegs. But your CO2 tanks will last much longer if you aren't using them to carbonate the beer.

 

[ajwillys]

You actually wouldn't need a fridge. If you had a cooler or insulated box, you can just run some of the glycol through copper coils in that box and it would cool it down. These things are powerful. In fact, if you interested in selling, I might be interested for building a jacketed conical.

 

[400d]

You actually wouldn't need a fridge. If you had a cooler or insulated box, you can just run some of the glycol through copper coils in that box and it would cool it down. These things are powerful. In fact, if you interested in selling, I might be interested for building a jacketed conical.

I might be interested in selling but I'm very, very, veeeeeeery far away

 

[ajwillys]

I might be interested in selling but I'm very, very, veeeeeeery far away

Bosnisa? Wow, that is far away! I'm thinking shipping might be a bit prohibitive on that. I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work.