Proper welding techniques

[bad67z]

heres my purge set up.....

Are you running the same CFH to the torch and the backer?

 

[tigmaster]

there ya go...hows the gas enter?

 

[bad67z]

there ya go...hows the gas enter?

If I recall correctly, I think Ed's welder used the threads on the fitting and ran the gas outside to in. had to be a bit of a PIA to weld around the hose.

 

[tigmaster]

it depends....my gas hooks directly into my welder and comes out as soon as the tungsten hits the metal...you dontwant to much backpurge or it will blow thru ur weld....

 

[Ohio-Ed]

If I recall correctly, I think Ed's welder used the threads on the fitting and ran the gas outside to in. had to be a bit of a PIA to weld around the hose.

That's correct. I told him he could punch a hole in the can if he wanted, but he ended up running the gas in through the coupling from the outside.

To be honest, for all I know he never used the purge. The welds were far from perfect and the purge was something I tried to offer him to help.

 

[mmurray]

Cheap or free welds are awesome, ruined kegs suck!

I already learned this the hard way! My brother worked in a shop that welded Stainless pipe all the time! Has Excelent welders. I gave them directions as best as I could get from the boards here and told them how I wanted it done... tried to coordinate for me to be there but they said they would do it during working hours as the boss didn't want to start having everyone in the shop after hours all the time doing projects! So they took a plasma to the tops to cut them out... I told them to put water in the kegs to prevent slag from ruining the inside of the kegs, but I was told it wasn't needed and I could just wipe the kegs out afterward. I think it wasn't theirs so they didn't really care... BROTHERS! Anyway, instead of drilling or punching a nice clean hole in the side for the coupler they cut those with a plasma too! You know how hard it is to get a nice clean weld with gaps? One of which was as much as 1/4"!!!

That's why I'm getting a friend who I trust and who has no problem with me being there to help!

They say don't work with family!!! Now I know why!

 

[tigmaster]

yeah thats crazy....i use a step bit to get to the right size hole....make the two faces of the keg and the coupling just barly touch and i make a back purged fuse pass...and leaving purge on... i do a filler pass...and i would never use a plasma...i use a thin disc and run it round till thru

 

[tigmaster]

where u at? u by sacto?

 

[BrewBeemer]

I am wanting to set my Mig up to use for Stainless . I got a roll of .25 dia 308L wire but haven't bought the gas yet should I get a tri-mix or will 100% argon work to weld on a keg? The tri-mix is dam pricey and after I get my welds done it will probably just set around.

Damn bro you must be King Kong wrestling with ".25 dia 308L wire", you forget a zero maybe?

 

[tigmaster]

ha i just noticed that...think he meant .025

 

[BrewBeemer]

BrewBeemer, Here is a syncrowave 250 I'm watching on ebay. Not the same deal you got, but I've been watching then for a while and this one is currently in the ballpark.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110615436833&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


My problem is I don't know what features it may be missing that will cause me to kick myself when I learn a bit more.

I don't know how to evaluate it or test it. The seller is actually a welding supply, so I'm thinking it "should" be in decent shape if they say it is?

Ed,
that's one super clean looking machine for its age i'd say 1995 or newer by a year or two the best i've seen in years except my 350 Synchro I wax and cover.
With that 250 the only options missing are the preflow it's range will be 0-15 seconds I recall, you can live without I prefer it. This option may still be avilable (?). Below preflow should be the spot timer knob, below that the on / off spot switch.
Below the spot switch should be the digital volt gauge, to the right the amp gauge. These items are optional but also nice to have.
That machine has a water cooled torch plus the Miller cooler, 14 pin heavy duty foot control, that alone is $400, the cooler $600 to $900, wet torch $200, regulator with flow meter $150. My guess on all these prices off the top of my head.
I have a fully loaded 350 Sync only the spot option missing i'm not into factory production spot welding but have PF caps.
That 250 is one sweet welder you will never regret purchasing, a custom marine SS fab friend runs his 250 hourly and daily. Kept in same condition you can get your money back selling later. Rather rare as 250 Sync owners keep them plus this is super clean unless the pictures hide a repaint? I would ask plus the condition of the HF points for wear, this would tell you how much use the welder has due to many HF starts by the pitting.
The only other things it doesn't have is pulser I recall $160 plus power factor capacitors this another $240 option. Can you feed it as without power factor caps it will draw 92 amps @ 230 VAC @ 40% duty @ 250 A out or 74 amps at 60% duty 200 A out? This at maximum output which you'll be operating way lower amps unless doing 3/8" thick aluminum.
If I was looking for a 250 Sync this one would be a steal i'd own it in an instant unless I was looking for a inverter welder. Shipping to S.F. bay area would cost me $425, is this a local add plus can you get it picked up by a friend to save on shipping?
Take a look at a Miller 200 Sync new for $2,033, comes with pulser, amp and volt digital gauges at www.Cyberweld.com
http://store.cyberweld.com/milsyn180sd2.html
The 250 looks complete plus ready to run just get the biggest owner own bottle larger than a 80 cu/ft, I prefer 250's.
No worries I would not jump on it but have friends that would if I told them about it which I won't, bid on it at the last moment but for now ask the seller questions should he pull the bid so he knows your intrested in it. Placing a bid your choice in timing. All the above are JMO's, good bidding. Carl.

 

[ByrdAle]

Are you guys using a remote with a rheostat?

 

[mmurray]

where u at? u by sacto?

South Mississippi.... My brother used to work in Baton Rouge he's now a mill wright and outside machinist @ Northrup Gruman.

 

[mmurray]

yeah thats crazy....i use a step bit to get to the right size hole....make the two faces of the keg and the coupling just barly touch and i make a back purged fuse pass...and leaving purge on... i do a filler pass...and i would never use a plasma...i use a thin disc and run it round till thru

I used a Unibit at first but got drilling too fast and burn the bit (even using cutting oil) after 3 1/2 holes. But... after getting my brother to come over and going through his tool box we found that the 3/4" Greenlee knockout punch leaves a 1 3/32" hole... Below is a pic of the set just like his that I used. Since I already had pilot holes drilled for all the couplings it literaly took me 5 min to finish the 6 holes! And each one is a nice tight fit!

Here is the coupling fit after using the Greenlee Knockout punch!

 

[mmurray]

Here is the outside of the coupling that the hole was cut by a plasma cutter. Huge gas and jagged edges didn't make for a pretty weld.

Here is the inside... We are going to stick the tig down there and do what I guess would be like a fusion weld to just get the metal to flow and smooth out. Make it look better... I don't know if it will bee 100% fix, but fingers crossed it'll clean the weld up.

 

[BrewBeemer]

You can't weld over crap and oxides it will cause bubbles with pin holes.
Grind it out first I would recommend before rewelding.

 

[tigmaster]

and i would bck purge the other side or ur jst gonna have a mess...remeber vet ur purge and dont stay in one place to long or u will blow out

 

[tigmaster]

very nice fit....make sure its all flush....back purge and do a fuse pass first....im normally around 40 on the heat and 20 cfm on backpurge

 

[ScubaSteve]

I'm looking at a little Forney AT-100...sposed to do decent SMAW and can be adapted for a basic TIG torch. I don't expect much out of it as far as TIG goes, but for tacking mild steel and following up with O/A it could be a pretty decent buy. I've also seen those 3-in-1 units by Simadre and other weird brands....they seem a bit cheap....I bet it probably doesn't do any one thing well...but is probably okay for infrequent use.

 

[tigmaster]

on the other hand i would just cut that crap out and patch the hole ad move the coupling location

 

[tigmaster]

or just check out the miller maxstar 150 stl...ready to go for tig and stick....doesnt do alum..but i use it all day at work, and it is my machine at home

 

[mmurray]

very nice fit....make sure its all flush....back purge and do a fuse pass first....im normally around 40 on the heat and 20 cfm on backpurge

Yes it did turn out to be a nice fit! Thought I would post this because I've read of a bunch of people complaining about drilling their kegs. Here is an alternative for using a step/Uni bit.

 

[kladue]

Chamfer the coupling end and use an interference fit with 1/16" on the inside, paint 1" ring around weld site on inside of keg and inside of coupling with Solar flux. Tack up and weld outside of keg, then remove flux on inside and apply flux on outside. Consume coupling material on inside to fill the small gap and leave enough material for grinding later. Use a Maroon disk in scotch brite adapter for 4" grinder and smooth inside, switch to blue then finish with gray disk. Then take a 1/2" pipe tap and clean coupling threads so fittings will fit correctly after the coupling was shrunk during the welding. Here is a picture of one of the keg conversions I have done, not the best but adequate for hot side work.http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/KegglesForClubMembers#5194106467776001890

 

[tigmaster]

honsetly kladue.....i think that looks like crap....u should never have to use flux OR have to grind ur weld down....and i dont have to use a pipe tap either....use less heat and u wont screw the coupling up.....i dont appreciate it when u post some jankey ass way to weld a coupling on after i have described the proper professional way to do it....start ur own brazing thread cause thats what it is if ur usin flux!

 

[ncgardenfreaks]

tigmaster you said use tri-mix gas for MIG process on stainless, I do stainless welding and fabrication for food service and have not seen the reason to use tri-mix. Argon is required for a sanitary weld with that process and not the uni-mix junk. I hate to even say use a MIG for sanitary because it isnt the best tool for the job being cold start and having to deal with the clean-up afterwards. The only benefit of helium that I was trained in and know of is for overhead welds to keep shielding gas on the area until proper cooldown. Just curious of your reasonings behind recommending it. Good looking multi pass weld in the pic though.

 

[kladue]

TigMaster, thank you for the kind comments, it is refreshing to see that you are obviously a very experienced TIG welder from all the comments and pictures of your work. I will be interested in seeing additional tips and wisdom from your posts in the future.

 

[BrewBeemer]

honsetly kladue.....i think that looks like crap....u should never have to use flux OR have to grind ur weld down....and i dont have to use a pipe tap either....use less heat and u wont screw the coupling up.....i dont appreciate it when u post some jankey ass way to weld a coupling on after i have described the proper professional way to do it....start ur own brazing thread cause thats what it is if ur usin flux!

I read it as using flux as a surface oxidation shield on the opposite side of the keg preventing sugar.

I see no reference mentioned about brazing just flux applied.

With grinding down tacked welds my custom SS fab shop friend i've seen him many of time grind down his larger tacks before the final weld for a consistent weld width and height for the perfect Tig weld pattern in appearance boat owners demand.

Done venting as i've applied these techniques myself learned from others with great success, i'll try anything to improve my welding abilties.

 

[kladue]

BrewBeemer, after looking at GreenMontis work and Tigmasters Sig picture, enough has been said on this matter.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Gotcha, now for a turkey sandwich with a stout.

 

[tigmaster]

yo ncgarden...argon for tig process is fine....but you need the helium in the tri mix to get the mig wire to burn in....