Propane vs. Natural Gas?

[PADave]

Anyone using natural gas instead of propane for their burners? I'm thinking about getting a new burner that uses NG because I have a gas line coming out of the house right where I do my brewing. Would eliminate having to deal with propane tanks, even though it's no big deal, usually have 3 on hand. Also thinking about getting the new grill that uses NG for the same reason. Any reasons not to use natural gas?

 

[jschein]

Use it if available, cheaper than propane.

 

[mongoose33]

I'd do that in a second if I had that arrangement.

I've actually thought about having a plumber extend the natural gas line into the garage so I could do exactly that. Unfortunately the gas comes in on the other side of the house and terminates at the furnace in the center of the basement. So I'd have to extend that NG line to the other side, get it to come up out of the basement into the garage someplace.

I haven't checked cost but it wouldn't shock me if it was $700 or more to do that. You're lucky--do it!

 

[sd_brewbie]

We had a new gas line run for a fire pit in the back yard and I had another sweep put in where I brew. Still need to convert my burners and find a good QD for the gas connection

 

[TaylorT]

I will echo most of the other posts here and say do it if you can. Just keep in mind that NG has a different BTU content than propane and you'll need the NG orifices for the burner you'll use.
Just because the burner CAN be used with NG doesn't mean it will come setup that way, since most can be used with either. You can probably convert your existing burner too, unless you needed an excuse to buy a new one anyway .

For those talking about extending gas lines/high cost: Ask what material they will use. I did this just last year, and sure enough the plumber wanted $700+ to run a line 25 feet to my range.
It turned out that they wanted to use flex tuning for the whole run, which is very easy but also expensive.
I had someone else run just plain black steel piping, harder to work with but much cheaper (under $200).

 

[Jim311]

Would love to get NG in my house to run my grill and patio burners. Constantly swapping propane tanks is for the birds.

 

[Firewalker11]

The place I used to work for did NG conversions from propane all the time, they actually make a chart, I am posting one from Johnstone, my local supplier. I use it like this: Find the BTU rating by inserting wire drill bits into the orifice until you get a snug fit, go to the far right column for the BTU, lets 12300 LP, move over to the column with your gas pressure, lets say its 3psig, 12200 BTU in LP is approximately a #50 wire bit. just drill it out, clean away all shavings, test.

I kid you not, its really just that simple. It works on anything made for propane that you need to convert to NG. You will have to buy a NG regulator though, they are pretty cheap, I paid about $10.00 for my last one at a parts store but they seem to have a few on ebay for $5-$25.

http://www.davegardner.org/images/GasInfo/OrificeTable.pdf

You are solely responsible for the outcome by following this table or playing with compressed gasses.

 

[BlueHouseBrew]

I converted my burners to natural gas by making my own orifices. It is fairly easy: (1) find a brass nipple at the hardware store that fits your burner (how you connect that to your gas source is up to you, i used a small ball valve (supply line - valve - nipple - burner); (2) flux the inside of one end of the nipple; (3) fill that end with 3/8" long pieces of regular pipe solder; (4) stand the nipple up with the solder-end down on a flat piece of metal (I used a mason jar lid); (5) hold the nipple down and heat it with a torch until the solder melts, remove heat, keep it still until solder solidified; (6) center-punch the solder end and progressively drill it out until your burner runs with a clean blue flame. The nice part about this method is if you drill the orifice too large, you can simply plug it with solder again and re-drill.

 

[Firewalker11]

I converted my burners to natural gas by making my own orifices. It is fairly easy: (1) find a brass nipple at the hardware store that fits your burner (how you connect that to your gas source is up to you, i used a small ball valve (supply line - valve - nipple - burner); (2) flux the inside of one end of the nipple; (3) fill that end with 3/8" long pieces of regular pipe solder; (4) stand the nipple up with the solder-end down on a flat piece of metal (I used a mason jar lid); (5) hold the nipple down and heat it with a torch until the solder melts, remove heat, keep it still until solder solidified; (6) center-punch the solder end and progressively drill it out until your burner runs with a clean blue flame. The nice part about this method is if you drill the orifice too large, you can simply plug it with solder again and re-drill.

I'm glad you have had good luck with that method so far but 50/50 melts at 418°F and gets soft under 400°F. NG burns in air at 3542°F, even indirect exposure puts you at great risk.

A much better idea is to just drill out your LP nozzles or braze the nipple, brazing with PC3 Copper-Phosphorous rod melts at 1310°F, much safer!

 

[sd_brewbie]

It's there a good source to buy orifices online?

 

[truvr]

I use my NG supply and love it. But I never did use propane so...

I use the BG14/KAB4 burner:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009JXYTG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I got the NG valve/orifice from Williams:
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/mobile/14-NPT-HURRICANE-NATURAL-GAS-CONVERSION-VALVE-P2214.aspx

And a spare hose and disconnect from Amazon. I can't find the exact hose I ordered but here is the disconnect:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AMC5WY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

With a tee on the supply I've had no problem boiling and running the grill at the same time.

 

[beernutz]

After running out of propane during the middle of a boil (and paying close to $30 for a tank swap at the closest place offering them) for the last time I ditched my old propane burners a couple years ago and built a natural gas system and life is good.

A few weeks ago I reconfigured my setup as a natural gas HERMS and life got even better. The beer likely won't improve much but it is a lot more fun to make.

I bought a 25' natural gas hose and attached it to a gas hookup on my deck made for a grill. You can see the gray gas hose running off into the darkness under the deck.

The hose connects to BIP attached to the bottom of the strut structure to deliver gas to two burners, the leftmost one under the HLT being controlled by a Honeywell gas valve.

 

[Firewalker11]

It's there a good source to buy orifices online?

It depends on the burner manufacturer, they may/may not offer NG replacements. there is no standard for orifices, each manufacturer can design their own.

Most of the time, they are NPT threaded and an NPT plug can be used in its place. With the right drill bit, you can make your own.

To reiterate: If going from propane to natural gas, just open the orifice with a drill bit, follow that chart I attached yesterday and you will end up with the same BTU output.

**Remember the regulator!**

 

[badmajon]

If you do convert to NG, make sure you'll still have the BTUs that you need. It's generally lower BTU than low pressure propane, the BTUs of that (LP Propane) are low enough as it is. I'd say screw it and go electric. I spent about 350-400 on a single burner LP propane RIMS rig and I wish I had just saved my money and gone electric for a bit more.

 

[Firewalker11]

If you do convert to NG, make sure you'll still have the BTUs that you need. It's generally lower BTU than low pressure propane, the BTUs of that (LP Propane) are low enough as it is. I'd say screw it and go electric. I spent about 350-400 on a single burner LP propane RIMS rig and I wish I had just saved my money and gone electric for a bit more.

Just follow the chart I attached yesterday, its BTU for BTU, no losses.