Propane to Electric w/ cooler mash tuns

[currywc22]

Been looking to find the best way to brew through the seasons while utilizing the equipment I've already invested in as much as possible. Right now I brew with a propane burner using cooler mash tuns and am hoping to continue this method by only changing my heat source. I've read through several forums, but am surprised that there aren't many people that have gone this route.

Background on what my goals are: 5 gallon batches, use current equipment as much as possible, brew indoors, quick/efficient brew days, semi-automatic system (controller), and not spend a stupid amount of money (up-gradeable?).

My plan is to use my 15 gallon SS Brewtech Boil Kettle w/ a (1x) Camco 02955: 4500W (240V) and an Auber EZBoil controller and transfer my mash to one cooler and my sparge to another. (Skip a few steps) Then transfer my wort back into my boil kettle. Essentially a traditional cooler mash-tun brew day but with a heating element rather than a burner.

What I like about this setup is that right now, I only need to invest ($500+/-) in a few things but have the option to upgrade down the line; additional elements,controllers, pumps, kettles. But the lack of other people using this type of system has me second guessing myself. Also the amount of sanitizing/cleaning with 3 buckets takes away from the brew day. Any suggestions or things I should consider for current/future brew days? Do I just buy a damn grainfather and be done with it?

Advice, thoughts, and criticism all appreciated! Thanks!

 

[chudsonvt]

I am doing it. Currently my setup is quite manual and slow because I am utilizing 1500W elements, but it works. I run a 10 gallon cooler for my HLT with a 50FT HERMs coil with a 1500W and a second 10 gallon for my MT. I then have a 1500W heatstick for my kettle. My kettle is a bit small (7.5 gallon). But I have it insulated pretty well and can just barely boil with the 1500W with no temp control. If you go with the 4500W, you will definitely need temp control to avoid boil overs. I just have not made the move yet because I need to install a couple 240V circuits in my brewery. The element in the HLT is not necessary if you do not plan on having the HERMs since you can heat in your kettle and transfer to the HLT.

Also, I have never had any real problems with cleaning. Not like anything needs to be sanitized being all pre-boil components. MT will take a little more cleaning the the HLT, but still not bad if you don't let it sit (I am notorious for letting it sit overnight and hate myself for it).

So it really then comes down to the typical things to consider.
RIMs/HERMs? - do you want to do step changes/mashout without decoction?
Number of elements? - do you have have sufficient power available?
How many tiers? Will determine what you need for pumps, if anything

Since my setup is still pretty primitive, I can't recommend much on the way of controllers and the like, but I can tell you it is fun to figure out converting pre-existing stuff to electric.

I guess one thing to keep in mind is that coolers usually are only rated for 185. I have pushed beyond this accidentally in my HLT and did not have problems, but it is worth noting.

Also, insulate your kettle. I went with two layers of the foil/bubble stuff but there are other options as well.

I hope this helps! And you're not alone!

 

[chudsonvt]

Here is a pic:

 

[dyqik]

My plan is to use my 15 gallon SS Brewtech Boil Kettle w/ a (1x) Camco 02955: 4500W (240V) and an Auber EZBoil controller and transfer my mash to one cooler and my sparge to another. (Skip a few steps) Then transfer my wort back into my boil kettle. Essentially a traditional cooler mash-tun brew day but with a heating element rather than a burner.

This is pretty much what I do right now. Although I have gone even cheaper, and used a StillDragon SSVR kit to control a 5500W element in my Bayou Classic kettle, with no temperature control of the kettle, just a variable power control

I have a separate 2000W RIMS tube and controller running on 120V that I use with a 10 gal cooler mash tun for temperature control and mash out, but I don't really need it for a traditional infusion mash.

I heat sparge water in the kettle, transfer to a 5 gallon cooler and sparge from that, while running off to the kettle. I use two of the 24V little tan pumps to run the RIMS tube and transfer wort and sparge water so this is all on one level.

If I upgrade, it will likely be to set up my old 8 gallon brew kettle as a heated and temperature controlled HLT. But I can't see much need for it right now. I guess a thermostat on the kettle might be nice to cut if off when heating strike water.

 

[chudsonvt]

This is pretty much what I do right now. Although I have gone even cheaper, and used a StillDragon SSVR kit to control a 5500W element in my Bayou Classic kettle, with no temperature control of the kettle, just a variable power control.

Yeah, for boiling, this is all you need. When I get around to wiring a couple 240V circuits, this is what I'll use for my kettle (after buying a bigger one of course).

 

[Kampenken]

Been looking to find the best way to brew through the seasons while utilizing the equipment I've already invested in as much as possible. Right now I brew with a propane burner using cooler mash tuns and am hoping to continue this method by only changing my heat source. I've read through several forums, but am surprised that there aren't many people that have gone this route.

Background on what my goals are: 5 gallon batches, use current equipment as much as possible, brew indoors, quick/efficient brew days, semi-automatic system (controller), and not spend a stupid amount of money (up-gradeable?).

My plan is to use my 15 gallon SS Brewtech Boil Kettle w/ a (1x) Camco 02955: 4500W (240V) and an Auber EZBoil controller and transfer my mash to one cooler and my sparge to another. (Skip a few steps) Then transfer my wort back into my boil kettle. Essentially a traditional cooler mash-tun brew day but with a heating element rather than a burner.

What I like about this setup is that right now, I only need to invest ($500+/-) in a few things but have the option to upgrade down the line; additional elements,controllers, pumps, kettles. But the lack of other people using this type of system has me second guessing myself. Also the amount of sanitizing/cleaning with 3 buckets takes away from the brew day. Any suggestions or things I should consider for current/future brew days? Do I just buy a damn grainfather and be done with it?

Advice, thoughts, and criticism all appreciated! Thanks!

This is essentially what I was thinking about some 14mos ago or so now. I was brewing 5-6g batches with single kettle and single MLT (not sure why you use a MTL and a sparge cooler? I would mash, vorlauf, drain into kettle and repeat for the sparge process, batch sparge style). My plan was to build a RIMS tube and recirc, but I would stay with the single cooler setup. Bought the pump and was putting together the RIMS tube order when I stumbled across the Grainfather. I like the simplicity and the look, and at $800 it was in the price range of my development costs, with the added bonus of easy to travel. I bought the GF and haven't looked back.

If you are interested in the DIY aspect and want to keep price down I would take a close look at the Mash & Boil. No CFC or pump, so you could build that in, but at ~$300 its a steal to me.

 

[currywc22]

Thank you for the insight and good to know I'm not alone in my thoughts process.

-RIMS/HERMS may be one of those things I can "add on" later. That's kind of why I like this method vs Grainfather; I can build onto my setup and grow with it.
-Power won't be a problem, this will be in my basement and I'm running new lines specifically for this setup. I definitely want the 240V line so I can get to boil fairly quickly.
-Right now I'm doing a lot of unnecessary lifting/moving with my kettle/tuns. But hope to set up something a bit more practical and permanent when I do go ahead with this plan. My last batch I did was with batch sparging and I think if I do indeed move forward with this setup, I'll switch to this method permanently rather than having a second cooler.

What I do like about the Grainfather is that my other equipment is not going anywhere. So if I want to brew outside or if the GF gives me a hard time, I can switch to my traditional propane setup. If I start drilling holes and adding elements; I'm confined to that setup. But really one of the reason I don't want to buy the Grainfather is that my kettle is like brand new and it'd be a damn shame to not give it the proper amount of batches. Really should of thought this through BEFORE I spent the money on a new kettle.

 

[Kampenken]

If you have a nice dedicated area, basement, garage, brew shed, then you can make this really nice and you won't care much about one location brewing I'd bet. Though that's one of the great aspects of a brew shed, open it up on nice sunny days. Did you pick a place yet to brew? Whatever you chose post pics for all to get and keep sharing ideas!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Your 15 gallon pot, an element, and a BIAB bag will work well. You can use a simple controller like the still dragon, a pid, or even no controller if you use a smaller element for 5 gallon batches, say 3000 to 3500. Easiest to just insulate the kettle during the mash rest or you can recirculate with temp control if you like fancy.

The Grainfather is 120v and only 1800 w so it is slow to produce a timid boil.

Your 15 gallon kettle with a larger 240v element will be much quicker.

If your tired of messing with 3 vessels, single vessel BIAB full volume mashing works well in a basement brewery set up IME.

 

[currywc22]

If you have a nice dedicated area, basement, garage, brew shed, then you can make this really nice and you won't care much about one location brewing I'd bet. Though that's one of the great aspects of a brew shed, open it up on nice sunny days. Did you pick a place yet to brew? Whatever you chose post pics for all to get and keep sharing ideas!

I'm torn on my location right now. I have a separate garage (20x10) that I just put a new concrete pad in. But no water, plumbing, or enough power. I've been debating on going all in and sectioning off a 10x10 space that's climate controlled, with a sub-panel, and water/plumbing. But I'm in the midst of a kitchen renovation as is, so not sure if I'm going to want to pony up the 5-10k necessary for it to be done right. Plus the whole my Wife will murder me aspect of it all.

That leaves me with my dungeon of a basement. Definitely a more practical choice and with a bit of creativity I can make it work just as well.

I have to educate myself more on the BIAB method. With BIAB, do I need to pick out an element similar to Blichman's version which runs around the diameter of the kettle? Or can it just essentially sit on the element? I know they say no scorching...but seriously? It's directly on a heat source. Not a big deal but I'd also have to recirculate my wort during the process, correct?

 

[dyqik]

I think the best bet with BIAB is put a loose "pseudo-false-bottom" in to hold the bag above a typical ripple element (some people use the steamer baskets that come with some large kettles for this), and to recirculate if you want to control mash temperatures with the element. The false-bottom doesn't need any ability to filter mash particles, just to physically support the bag.

With the Boilcoil, even in a recirculating system I'd be concerned that you are heating the side of the mash rather than the recirculating liquid.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You can make Ebiab as simple or complicated as you wish. Simplest is to heat to strike temp, shut element off and mash in and insulate the kettle.

If you want to make it complicated you can add a FB,
pump, and pid controller.

FWIW I'm a fan of simple. A complex system may make more consistent beer, I'm just not sold that the beer is "better"

Depends if you like more equipment to futz with or if you like basic no frills brewing.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

I started out in electric like this. Ran a 30 amp 240v circuit; Heating my strike water in a keggle with a 5500w element. Transferring it to my 54 qt cooler for mashing. Then heating sparge water in the boil kettle and transferring it to a 5 gallon round cooler to wait.

Eventually I got a 15 gallon kettle for the boil and made the keggle my HLT. Still mashed in the 54 qt cooler. Then I made a rims. Finally I got a 15 gallon kettle for mashing.

You can build PID controls for everything or just use a 9600w motor control to start.

A 120v heat stick can help get water boiling or keep sparge water warm (with a controller).

BIAB would be a great way to get started and you can leave the coolers in the closet (and not have to clean them). You can make a BIAB bag out of a "Sheer" window curtain for $5-$8 and a little sewing (your wife can help ). As someone said use a steamer rack to keep it away from the element. You can make a separator from a pizza pan with holes in it and some 3" bolts to keep it off the floor of the kettle.

Regardless, what you are thinking is totally valid.

 

[Kampenken]

I'm torn on my location right now. I have a separate garage (20x10) that I just put a new concrete pad in. But no water, plumbing, or enough power. I've been debating on going all in and sectioning off a 10x10 space that's climate controlled, with a sub-panel, and water/plumbing. But I'm in the midst of a kitchen renovation as is, so not sure if I'm going to want to pony up the 5-10k necessary for it to be done right. Plus the whole my Wife will murder me aspect of it all.

That leaves me with my dungeon of a basement. Definitely a more practical choice and with a bit of creativity I can make it work just as well.

I have to educate myself more on the BIAB method. With BIAB, do I need to pick out an element similar to Blichman's version which runs around the diameter of the kettle? Or can it just essentially sit on the element? I know they say no scorching...but seriously? It's directly on a heat source. Not a big deal but I'd also have to recirculate my wort during the process, correct?

That's a lot right there!

On location- the "dungeon" doesn't sound inviting! Maybe you can make a nice go of it? If so, the main concern first is to ensure proper ventilation. Garage is nice, but 50% loss is a big commitment to brewing, if no big deal I still like that over the dungeon, if for nothing else than being outside- Atlantic City is moderate weather for 3/4 of the year, right? There are solutions to keep costs down- i.e. water supply is hooked up each time via a RV hose from house to an inlet into your garage plumbing, outlet mostly saved and re-used, space heater, small a/c unit etc..

As for BIAB, well I'm no expert, as my BIAB experience began with the GF in essence. I'd use a ULWD element, but still need to keep the bag off the element I'd suspect. I'll let "real" BIAB brewers reply on that!

Best of luck!

 

[currywc22]

All good advice!

For the element - installing a ripple element on a 15 gallon pot where I don't imagine boiling much more than 8 gallons of water at a time; probably looking to install 3-5 inches from the bottom? I would think this gives me enough room for the trub but also close enough to the bottom that I can fully immerse my bag of grain without (hopefully) contacting the element. I'll do some experimenting on my part - I'm sure everyone's kettle is a little bit different, but any suggestions from your kettles/experiences?

The lack of extra cleaning with BIAB is really enticing. It's why I liked the Grainfather. Just need to figure out the best way with my rig. Got some good suggestions to go off of!

 

[wilserbrewer]

You would mount the element as close to the bottom as possible. You don't NEED a false bottom. You can heat strike water, add bag and grain and insulate the kettle for the mash and not fire the element while the bag is in the kettle. This is the simplest method. You could also most likely fire the element at a reduced percentage with constant stirring without scorching if you just wanted to raise a couple degrees to tweak mash temp.

Once you add a false bottom and add heat, you need to recirculate either manually a few gallons or with a pump. Otherwise the wort below the false bottom will get very hot and the mash will not heat up.

I would brew a few batches with a Minimalistic approach and add to your system as you desire. Losing a couple few degrees during a mash is nothing to fret over imho. If your losing 3-5 degrees over the mash period, just start your mash 2-3 degrees higher. Rdwhahb

 

[currywc22]

@wilserbrewer

My first batch when I add an element, I think I'll continue with my cooler method. This is in line with your minimalistic approach; I don't want to make too many changes to my brew day all at once.

But if/when I do change to BIAB w/o adding some sort of false bottom, have you run into any issues with the weight of the grain bed/bag on top of the (turned off) element? Or does the immersion in water alleviate any tension?

 

[wilserbrewer]

The grain bag does not sit on the element, it will form around it and shouldn't put any weight or pressure on the element.

It like a big soft sack of oat meal, can't push anything.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

All good advice!

For the element - installing a ripple element on a 15 gallon pot where I don't imagine boiling much more than 8 gallons of water at a time; probably looking to install 3-5 inches from the bottom? I would think this gives me enough room for the trub but also close enough to the bottom that I can fully immerse my bag of grain without (hopefully) contacting the element. I'll do some experimenting on my part - I'm sure everyone's kettle is a little bit different, but any suggestions from your kettles/experiences?

The lack of extra cleaning with BIAB is really enticing. It's why I liked the Grainfather. Just need to figure out the best way with my rig. Got some good suggestions to go off of!

Mount your element as close to the bottom as possible or as low as your electrical box on the outside of the kettle allows. This will probably be about 3/4" to 1" off the bottom. You won't have any trub settling during the boil. If you whirlpool it will be below it too.

If you do BIAB you will need a false bottom above the element to keep the bag away from the element.

 

[highland_brewer]

I am actually working on a super simple BIAB parts list and video on my YouTube Channel right now. The panel design that I'm going to show in that video would certainly suit your needs that's based around a BIAB but it would certainly work for what you want to do.. I should have it done and posted to my channel this weekend. I've got a wiring diagram that I will be showing with it as well as all of the necessary wiring items needed to build it.

Talking about the Grainfather..that's only a 110v system.. The complete system I am going to show in that video is about $100 less than that system and based around a 240 volt system... including a counterflow chiller like the one that comes with the Grainfather.
And that includes the price of the kettle if you already have a kettle you can do it for much less.

-Brian