Problem with new Riptide Pump

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RocketBrewer

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I know these just hit the market, so not too many have used this pump yet. I bought one to replace one of my Chugger pumps because I loved the features, especially the quiet operation and ease of cleaning. The main problem I am having is the pump will start to scream if I run boiling wort through it (this is how i sanitize my chiller and pump in the last ten minutes of the boil). My chugger would tend to cavitate at higher temps too, but if I throttled it back a little it was fine. It seems to make no difference how much I throttle this one back, it will start screaming in a matter of seconds. this is a huge problem if I can't solve it. I also thought this would control flow easier than a ball valve, but it is very hard to dial in a slow flow for sparging. Over all I LOVE the pump, but if I can't use it to pump boiling wort, it really knocks down the value to me. I will contact Blichmann about it, but was just wondering if others had had this issue.

Thanks
 
Have you reprimed it after first few screams, then throttled back?

And btw, I use the same valve on the outlet on my march, and I love it comparing to standard ball valve which I found was near impossible to adjust in small increments. When you find a nice flow you like, put some tape you can write on on both the "body" and the thing you turn, on the valve, and mark with two lines. Next time align those two lines and you should be good to go.
 
Tried purging and throttling back but it still started squealing after a few seconds. I try to adjust my flow during sparging to no more than 1 gal per 5 min. I expected it to be easier on this valve, but there is a fine line between stopped flow and too much. It proved to be at least as difficult as the ball valve on my chugger. :(
 
Maybe you can restrict flow somewhere later in your line, and use the Riptide valve for fine adjustment? That would mean you're operating the Riptide valve in a more open position, where it can travel further before you notice reduction of flow, higher "resolution" in other words :)
 
Bobby_M said:
You don't need to pump while it's boiling. Just run the loop for 2 minutes after flame out.
Click to expand...


Not to hijack but thanks for pointing out something so plainly obvious but also something I just didn't think to do with my process!!! I'll be doing this from now on rather than trying to sanitize my CFC with boiling wort over the last 10 mins.

:smack:
 
I used my Rip Tide first time yesterday. It worked ok during the mash. But when I tried to recirculate the boil it took four times to get it where I thought it was pumping. Then I went back to cleaning kegs. Went back to check on the pump and it wasn't pumping any thing. Took it apart and the impeller was stuck to the shaft. The part of the impeller that has the stainless around it had swelled up and locked it to the shaft. It didn't swell up any where else so I found a drill bit that fit the hole on the impeller end and drilled out the hole until it spun free. By the time I got it fixed the boil had cooled down to 165. I didn't feel like heating it back up so did my whirlpool from there. The pump worked ok the rest of the day. I will have to boil some water and see if it is going to swell up some more before brewing again.
tracer Tom
 
tracer said:
I used my Rip Tide first time yesterday. It worked ok during the mash. But when I tried to recirculate the boil it took four times to get it where I thought it was pumping. Then I went back to cleaning kegs. Went back to check on the pump and it wasn't pumping any thing. Took it apart and the impeller was stuck to the shaft. The part of the impeller that has the stainless around it had swelled up and locked it to the shaft. It didn't swell up any where else so I found a drill bit that fit the hole on the impeller end and drilled out the hole until it spun free. By the time I got it fixed the boil had cooled down to 165. I didn't feel like heating it back up so did my whirlpool from there. The pump worked ok the rest of the day. I will have to boil some water and see if it is going to swell up some more before brewing again.
tracer Tom
Click to expand...

A stuck impeller on a new pump? I'd take that up with the manufacturer.

Although it works in a pinch, chances are your drill bit doesn't have the exact arbor.
 
I think the loud screeching is from the impeller running dry, not having any lubrication from the liquid when the pump chamber is empty or not full enough. My March pump did it a few times. Now I make sure it's full before turning it on. Some brewers use a bleed valve to prime the pump.
 
My new riptide did same think. Squeal and stop pumping during boil. Took head off... impeller was stuck to shaft from the heat expanding everything.
 
How long of a connection do you have from your input. I had to shorten my hose to less than 1 foot and I'm contemplating moving from a 1/2" feed to something larger. I think the GPM of this pump requires something bigger than 1/2" as mine will also start cavitation during the last 15 of boil
 
Hello all. John Blichmann here. Just got notified of this post and have had a few people notify us of this issue directly. My personal apology to those having trouble with their pumps. We are comitted to resolving it as quickly as we can so please reach out to us at [email protected] and we will get you taken care of as soon as we possibly can. We have been able to recreate the problem and we are working on a fix for the issue.

One post mentioned cavitation being an issue at boiling temperatures and he is absolutely correct. The fluid is at the boiling point so if you pull even a small vacuum on that fluid (which is what the pump does) it will flash to steam and you will get bursts of fluid and then steam going through your pump and hoses. With any pump this is not recommended. Any time you hear grumbling you're drawing too much vacuum for the temperature of the fluid and simply need to throttle the output (slow down the flow) until it stops. A better solution also mentioned in the thread is to wait for the wort to cool for a few minutes before pumping.

John
 
I understand the cavitation from the steam but I had a difficult time removing my impeller from the shaft until it cooled down. Maybe the cavitation removed the lubricating liquid which causes the shaft more friction and makes it expand more that it should.
 
jyorger that is exactly what we believe to be the problem - lack of lubrication from cavitation. We are working on improving the flow though the shaft area and make the impeller more tolerant of cavitation. Believe we will have parts to test late this week.

John B
 
I got to use my pump for the first time yesterday and I was pretty excited about it. Overall i really liked that it was quiet and easy to clean. The only issue I had was that sometimes you could hear the motor get electric but not start.

HERE IS A VIDEO

That video is after I shut off the gas and tried to run the recirc. I had primed it but nothing was happening. This same issue happened during the mash but i was able to turn it off and on a couple times and it worked. In the instance in the video i that didn't work. I shut my valves off and took the triclamp off and fiddled with it and reassembled each piece turning it on and off to make sure it worked. When i put the head back on it did it again but then the second time it worked.

Is it due to the impeller sticking and keeping the motor from overcoming the magnetic force to start spinning?
 
Mirilis, that is likely the issue. We are doing final testing on a new material and a couple geometry changes that will tolerate cavitation better. Will post an update when available.

John B
 
BlichmannEngineering said:
Mirilis, that is likely the issue. We are doing final testing on a new material and a couple geometry changes that will tolerate cavitation better. Will post an update when available.

John B
Click to expand...

John,

Thanks for the great customer service team! I got my pump sent in and had the magnet replaced (which was off center). Works like a charm now! cant wait to use it on this weekends brew day
 
BlichmannEngineering said:
Mirilis, that is likely the issue. We are doing final testing on a new material and a couple geometry changes that will tolerate cavitation better. Will post an update when available.

John B
Click to expand...


I have, and am satisfied with many Blichmann products.
Was this product not field tested? I am having a hard time accepting the fact that you came to market with a product that doesnt work well in the application for which it was SPECIFICALLY designed.
I almost purchased a couple of these to replace my noisy March pumps. I brew outside and set my timer to fire up the HERMS brewery very early so when I wake up on brew day I can mash in right away. The quieter pumps would have eased the tension between my closest neighbors and myself...
Glad I waited! I will now wait for rev 2.
 
BlichmannEngineering said:
Mirilis, that is likely the issue. We are doing final testing on a new material and a couple geometry changes that will tolerate cavitation better. Will post an update when available.

John B
Click to expand...


Hi John,
What happens to those of us with V1 pumps? Can we get an advance replacement swap for a new head so we're not out of commission?
 
I purchased two from MoreBeer.com on Sunday and they shipped Monday. I'm out of town but my wife said they were delivered yesterday. I can't wait to get them hooked up.
 
mbg said:
Any update?

I've had one on backorder since mid-June.


Thanks
Click to expand...

Where did you order your pump from?

I figured if my pumps were not the updated versions I would just contact either MoreBeer or Blichmann and get the replacement parts. It should be an easy warranty item.
 
sillbeer said:
Where did you order your pump from?

I figured if my pumps were not the updated versions I would just contact either MoreBeer or Blichmann and get the replacement parts. It should be an easy warranty item.
Click to expand...

My pump has shipped and should be delivered tomorrow.

Mike
 
Anyone else order from great fermentations? Hoping they are shipping soon
 
Blichmann knew about this issue way back in mid July but told retailers to keep selling the pump. The impeller is not able to withstand temperatures above boiling. They did say "this only applies to some pumps" which was not true. The first run pumps all had impellers made from the same plastic.

It has nothing to do with pump orientation so no need to fret about that. The user is doing nothing wrong.

Side note: all pumps will cavitate when boiling. Not all pumps will have the impeller melt to the housing. That's poor engineering.

My advice would be to contact Blichmann for a replacement pump/impeller. They should have recalled the pumps but are hoping that not every user will use their pump(s) to whirlpool or sanitize counter flow chillers (as a lot of us do with boiling wort) as we're used to doing with March or chugger pumps.

How do I know this you ask? Blichmann told us.
 
Well, my experience has been the complete opposite. I recirculate through my counterflow chiller right at flameout (or element off, as I brew with electric) and have never run into this.

What I think may be happening is people are trying to recirculate *while still boiling*. Not only is there no need for this at all, when the wort is on the verge of boiling any reduction in pressure will result in steam bubbles and cavitation. I'm thinking the pump head is full of steam bubbles, which leads to a lack of lubrication (the wort/water) around the impeller and shaft, which leads to stuck impellers.
 
I just ran one of my pumps for about 30 minutes without any real issues. Just doing a trial run before the brew this Sunday. I had to clock the pump head just slightly which wasn't a problem. I thought the inlet should be higher so the fluid would fill the head first but it didn't work real well. I had to clock the head so the inlet was just below a level horizon. Both times the bleeder spewed liquid out so I guess I need to use a rag to prevent a hot sticky mess.

Edit: The best part was these pumps are really quiet. I originally used a Chugger but it was really noisy. I then went with micro pumps running on 24v's and they were ok but the flow was a little slow and that's when I decided to go with the RipTide pumps. The RipTide pumps are just as quiet as the micro pumps I had.
 
brick_haus said:
Was this product not field tested? I am having a hard time accepting the fact that you came to market with a product that doesnt work well in the application for which it was SPECIFICALLY designed.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, no centrifugal pump can be reliably used to pump boiling water or wort. It's too close to the vapor point at that temp.

The impeller on my March pump seized on its shaft several times before I figured out that the dissolved sugars were 'plating' on the stainless shaft if I turned the pump off. That thin layer of sugars took up the clearance on the shaft and the impeller rotation couldn't be restored upon restart. Since it was a continual problem, I solved it by not stopping the pump. I now just shut the discharge valve whenever I need to switch hoses. When lower gravity wort and water circulate through the pump, it apparently dissolves the sugar layer off the impeller shaft and everything is fine by the end of the brew.
 
If you ordered through MoreBeer I would call them. I sent them an email two weeks ago with a question and haven't received a response back....
 
I ordered through Adventures in Homebrewing...closest out of state supplier to me, so no sales tax.

Maybe Mr. Blichmann stop by and shed some light on the situation.
 
Glad to hear I am not the only one who has run into this issue... I've run march 809's for years without any issues recirculating boiling wort for 15 minutes. My riptide has seized twice so far both during a 2 minute end of boil recirculation to sanitize and also during a sparge pump over. The only thing I have found that helps is to ensure that the tri-clamp is JUST tight enough. 1/10th of a turn too tight and it is basically guaranteed to seize. 1/10th of a turn too loose and it leaks from the TC clamp... It certainly seems like a tolerance issue and the high heat is causing the tolerances to tighten up too much.

Here is a video of the first time that it happened. I for sure thought the pump was dead but internal inspection after tearing the thing apart showed no visual damage to any of the components.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsDnGl3mZog[/ame]

I will be emailing Blichmann as instructed in this thread and hoping that they get this sorted soon.
 
I bought mine in person at MoreBeer Riverside on July 22. They didn't have any in-store, so they shipped it instead. Got it about 2 days later.

On my first test, I hand-tightened the clamp (this is my first experience with a TC clamp, so don't know how tight they need to be). Needless to say, the pump leaked a LOT. I contacted Blichmann support. They sent me a new flange (that the impeller sits in, see attached image below), o-ring, and washer. That's when I noticed my original flange had a defect (flat spot) and could be why it leaked.

Tried the new flange, o-ring, and washer. Same thing -- heavy leaking. Then I decided to tighten the clamp further using a long screwdriver as leverage. After 3 full turns, the leaking stopped. I just informed Blichmann Support of this moments ago and asked if this was "normal".

Anyway, here's a video I made showing my pump test with the Brew Hardware Spin Cycle Whirlpool return. You can hear how quiet the pump is and I was impressed that the whirlpool was still able to do its thing with 13 gallons of water (I only do 5-gallon batches)! I then spent the majority of my time yesterday afternoon etching fill lines and numbers into the kettle's side.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkBHIEwmqRA[/ame]

Riptide2-7.jpg
 
A few questions:

Why are your hoses so long?

Are you trying to recirculate *while* boiling?

Looks like you have hose jammed onto barbs. Are you sure they're not pulling air?

You need to realize that the blichmann pump moves a larger volume of wort than the march/chugger pumps do. That means the pressure drop at the pump inlet will be greater which will cause issues if you're trying to pump boiling wort.

That being said there is no reason to pump boiling wort.
 
FYI Blichmann appears to have the new impeller design in hand and will be shipping me one soon. I would email them and get them your shipping address if you are having issues.
 
Answers inline

The_Bishop said:
A few questions:

Why are your hoses so long?

-Because I move the pump around and use it to sparge and fill my mash tun as well. Since this video I've shorted the inlet hose by 1.5ft and the issue still happens. Any shorter and the lines will kink while filling my mash tun.

Are you trying to recirculate *while* boiling?

-Yes, i've done it for the past 7 years with a march 809 with zero issues.

Looks like you have hose jammed onto barbs. Are you sure they're not pulling air?

Positive, they are very large barbs that fit extremely snug on the 1/2" silicone thickwall hose even under temp. I use these which have a larger ID than most barbed fittings to promote better flow.

https://www.brewershardware.com/1-2-Threaded-Hose-Barb-TFF12B58.html

You need to realize that the blichmann pump moves a larger volume of wort than the march/chugger pumps do. That means the pressure drop at the pump inlet will be greater which will cause issues if you're trying to pump boiling wort.

-Very familiar with this, I throttle the pump back during recirculation to the point where it's barely throwing a whirlpool. At the time of the video the pump had already been successfully pumping the boiling wort for 3 or so minutes at which point it started to show signs of seizing.

That being said there is no reason to pump boiling wort.

-I would agree to an extent regarding sanitation but saying there is no reason isn't necessarily true. DMS production while most likely minimal will happen at high but sub boiling temperatures and will not off gas as readily.

-The fact is that 212'F boiling wort and 210'F non-boiling wort are still hot enough to cause the pump internals to potentially seize and that's the issue at hand for me, not cavitation or running the pump dry.
Click to expand...
 

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