Probably impossible but I am still asking

[NickL]

I am taking an entrepreneurship class in college and our potential business is a brewery that is setup specifically to handle ultra high gravity beers like Utopias.

It is the time in our class where we need do make a "Minimum Viable Product", which for us meens I need to brew a tasty 1.200 ish OG beer. We are going to use the beer to do tastings and conduct market research. I only need to make a galon or so. It doesnt need to be perfect and barrel aged or anything but it does need to be done (or at least drinkable) in a month.

I was thinking about taking a Utopias Clone converting it to extract and throwing some beano in there to make it really fermentable.

Again it doesnt have to be perfect. Just quick and dirty. We are talking about minimum viability, just so people get the jist of what we are trying to accomplish.

What are your guys thoughts?

 

[sudbuddy]

Have you calculated how much starter you are going to need for that high a gravity? You'll probably need to do a bigger batch to make it work. Extract is expensive too, you're probably better off going AG for this. Cool concept though, I'd like to hear how it turns out. Alternatively, if process doesn't matter, you could do a 1.080-90ish beer and eis it a couple times

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

Getting that high OG won't be an issue but proper fermentation might be a hurdle. How high of an ABV are you shooting for?

I heard somewhere that most of those yeasts used for Utopias, etc... are custom strains designed to withstand that high-ethanol environment. Not sure you'll have much more available to you than champagne yeast.

Additionally, a lot of those beers undergo freeze distillation to up the ABV. Would you have the ability to do this?


Don't mean to rain on your parade; I think it would be interesting to see what can be accomplished in a homebrew setting. But most of those beers are made using lots of capital and advanced techniques.

Good luck! Maybe someone else can be a little more insightful.

 

[NickL]

Have you calculated how much starter you are going to need for that high a gravity? You'll probably need to do a bigger batch to make it work. Extract is expensive too, you're probably better off going AG for this. Cool concept though, I'd like to hear how it turns out. Alternatively, if process doesn't matter, you could do a 1.080-90ish beer and eis it a couple times

No I am just starting the process of getting this together. I still need to calc all the pitching rates and such. AG might be a better option anyways because thered be more control over fermentability.
I also looked into eis but it looks like its illegal on the commercial level. however it might work for this purpose.

 

[NickL]

Getting that high OG won't be an issue but proper fermentation might be a hurdle. How high of an ABV are you shooting for?

I heard somewhere that most of those yeasts used for Utopias, etc... are custom strains designed to withstand that high-ethanol environment. Not sure you'll have much more available to you than champagne yeast.

Additionally, a lot of those beers undergo freeze distillation to up the ABV. Would you have the ability to do this?


Don't mean to rain on your parade; I think it would be interesting to see what can be accomplished in a homebrew setting. But most of those beers are made using lots of capital and advanced techniques.

Good luck! Maybe someone else can be a little more insightful.

I am only shooting for 20% to 25% ABV here so i was thinking WLP099 should do the trick.

Making a custom yeast is in the business plan. We just dont have the time for all that mutation and lab time right now.

I have the ability to freeze distil but i was trying to avoid it because its not legal on a commercial scale.

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

I like the idea. just get a baseline.

I agree with sudbuddy. I'd make at least 3 gallons because you will need a monster starter. A quick calculation puts it at a minimum 2.5L. If you have the AG equipment go for it, but if this is just a prototype then you can get away with extract. It will be expensive but not as much as getting all the equipment for AG if starting from scractch and looking to make a 1.2 beer.

 

[NickL]

I like the idea. just get a baseline.

I agree with sudbuddy. I'd make at least 3 gallons because you will need a monster starter. A quick calculation puts it at a minimum 2.5L. If you have the AG equipment go for it, but if this is just a prototype then you can get away with extract. It will be expensive but not as much as getting all the equipment for AG if starting from scractch and looking to make a 1.2 beer.

Ya I hear what you guys are sayin. Its definitly a concern. I have access to all grain but from what ive heard you have to reduce the volume considerably with boiloff. It jsut seems like a hassle if the opbective is quick and dirty.

Also i dont know if this calculaton is valid at these extremes. But MrMalty pitching rate calc is telling me i only need one vial with a starter if the beer is 1.200 and 1 gallon.

 

[NickL]

What I am really concerned about is how attenuated this is going to be in a month. I cant imagine there is any way it wouldnt still be really sweet in the timeframe.

I probably just need to eis something for this project. And do a full scale batch when we have the time. If we get that far.

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

One vial yes, but you need to grow it into a large starter

 

[Teromous]

Also i dont know if this calculaton is valid at these extremes. But MrMalty pitching rate calc is telling me i only need one vial with a starter if the beer is 1.200 and 1 gallon.

I wouldn't make a starter with that high of a gravity. Try doing a multi-step starter. For example make a 1 gallon starter at 1.040, crash and drain, step up with another 1 gallon at 1.040.

 

[Calder]

1 month is not a long time.

What style?

What abv.

Not knowing what the boundaries are, I would suggest doing a 1.100 with some crystal and about 15% plain table sugar. Then add cheap vodka or rum to get close to your required abv.

3 gallons:

7 lbs LME (or 5 lbs DME)
1 lb plain table sugar
0.5 lbs Crystal 60
S-05 yeast (1 pack should work)

Hops ..... That would still need to be sorted out.

This would give you 3 gallons of 1.100 wort. Probably finish around 1.020, for 10.5% abv.

Add vodka or rum to abv required. Carb from keg (you are never going to carb in bottle in your time frame - with WLP099, you might manage a 20% beer and successfully carb it, but you could be waiting for months for the bottle to carb)

 

[wardens355]

Why don't you brew a slightly lower booze beer, then partially freeze it and remove the ice. You would get your high gravity beer and have some experience if you ever wanted to make an Eisbock.

 

[Phunhog]

Are you sure ice distillation is illegal? Never heard that before.

 

[masonsjax]

I also thought freeze concentration was legal across the board. Several of the BMC brands have (or had) ice beers on the market.

If it were me, Id make a fairly high gravity brew using whatever ale yeast the style calls for. After fermentation slows, throw in a bunch of table sugar and some distillers yeast. That should get you at least close to what you need without tasting too much like gasoline.

 

[Hujo]

I wouldn't do tastings and market research with a product that i just threw together, "quick and dirty". I doesn't make sense to me. Start with the recipe, brew and brew again, until you have a spectacular product. I mean, a 20% beer in a month? Good luck!

 

[bluemoose]

My utopia took months to ferment with multiple additions of oxygen, wort and sugar. The starter was massive and I used three separate yeast strains to get it done.
099 says it will go up to 25%, but that is under ideal circumstances. It's not as easy as getting the wort to the right gravity, pitching, and praying.

Have you tried something anywhere near this gravity in the past? I guess the good news is that the taste is of little concern, meaning you can add oxygen to the primary fermentation continuously throughout the process.

Another concern would be the time to put it on oak mixed with the different alcohols to get the nuanced flavors

 

[NickL]

Seems like the general consensus is exactly what I though. Not going to happen, not enough time.

I will experiment with eis, maybe add some cognac or brandy. Should be good enough for the assignment.

 

[VladOfTrub]

I'd ask for my money back from the school.

 

[dyqik]

Some random thoughts, uninformed by experience:

Could you make your beer the starter? Start with a gallon of 1.090 ish beer, pitch plenty of yeast (full fresh vial?), let it go through the growth phase, then start feeding a super high gravity malt extract solution a bit at a time to keep feeding the active yeast, while raising the effective original gravity. I would say to add a gallon of 1.300 wort over time to end up with 2 gallons of 1.195 OG, but I'm not sure that SG is linear up to those kinds of numbers.

I guess some of the OG could be simple sugars added at the end of fermentation to help dry the beer and keep the yeast going right to the end. Maybe 2/3 of the original gravity from malt extract and 1/3 from sugar would do the trick (and simple sugars wouldn't need to be dissolved in water, making that a bit easier). I don't think there's any risk of a such a high gravity beer being thin or cidery.

The other trick that might help that I can think of is to hop with isomerized hop extract or hop tea after fermentation to avoid hops affecting the yeast (and to allow tuning of the bitterness to suit the FG).

 

[dyqik]

I also thought freeze concentration was legal across the board. Several of the BMC brands have (or had) ice beers on the market.

I think they have to add the removed water back in after shipping/whatever to prevent it being viewed as distillation.

 

[NickL]

I think they have to add the removed water back in after shipping/whatever to prevent it being viewed as distillation.

Ya that was my understanding also. For anyone interested, here is the legal mumbo jumbo. http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/94-3.htm





I started experimenting with eis. I did some homebrew and also got some singles from the grocery store to see what works.

Homebrew Scottish 70/-: WAY too roasty
Homebrew Porter : Didn't even try after the 70/-
Boston Lager : Might be a winner (with some added cognac for complexity)

Also in the list:
Dales Pale Ale, some random Bock I've never hear of, Cider(just because i had some old cans in the fridge)